I agree with you about the rule, and monk can't touch women, and you see the leader of monks here doing that....the reason is because of POLITIC, can't you see it...or it's too hard for you to see it.
the monk can touch anything.what the monk touch? how the monk think about touch? that touch for what? Do make feel about sex man&woman? if touch think about same human not about sex is OK can do it.
A high spiritual practice person wasn't thinking anything, except trying to help the lady out and then the whole matter is disappear, on the other hand, the on looker/s actually thinks more than the that person. The on looker/s keeps it in his/her mind all the time, that means the on looker is actually sinner than the innocent one because of this.
I just wonder why Daila Lama, who is wear like Buddhist monk, can hold hand the US speaker Nancy Pelosi. I got confused.
He is a Mahayana Buddhist, they are different than us. We (Lao) are Theravada Buddhist. We follow the original teaching of the Buddha (although we added some Laoness to it).
Mahayana they follow thier interpretation of what they think Buddha taught.
The basic of the teaching is still the same such as 4 noble truths.
It seems to me you people in Laos does not know anything about your own religion. Maybe some Lao people in America can teach you Lao something.
I just wonder why Daila Lama, who is wear like Buddhist monk, can hold hand the US speaker Nancy Pelosi. I got confused.
He is a Mahayana Buddhist, they are different than us. We (Lao) are Theravada Buddhist. We follow the original teaching of the Buddha (although we added some Laoness to it).
Mahayana they follow thier interpretation of what they think Buddha taught.
The basic of the teaching is still the same such as 4 noble truths.
Normal people in Laos believe that we to have to respect 5 rules. So, which one you have excluded?
Talking about Buddhist rules, normally for ordinary people need to observe only five rules, for novice -10, for monk -227.
Just now you said 4 noble, is it for what category of Buddhist people?
What you are refering to are the disciplines (VINAYA). From that there are rules/precepts (PATIMOKKHA) of the layperson, novice, and monk. It is follow if you are living a monastic community life. Sometime these rules are left to interpretation. That is why some monk smoke, drive car, touch money, eat 3 times a day, own property, ......hold a hand of a female.
What I am refering to is the CORE of the teaching (DHAMMA), Which are the 4 NOBLE TRUTHS. Regardless if you are either a Mahayan, Theravadin, or a Pureland Buddhist the core teaching remain the same.
They are:
1. The Nature of Suffering (Dukkha):
2. Suffering's Origin (Samudaya):
3. Suffering's Cessation (Nirodha):
4. The Way Leading to the Cessation of Suffering (Marga):
How about this picture? NO touching, NO holding...maybe just saying: "Sabaidee" or "How are you doing?"
Here also abnormal for me. I have never seen our Lao monk pray respect to laypeople, to say nothing women. What in our culture is monk is considered as person in higher stutus.
It seems to me you people in Laos does not know anything about your own religion. Maybe some Lao people in America can teach you Lao something.
Please save your sermon for your Lao American youth. Certain Lao American and Westernized Lao seems to know too much for their own good. In Laos we referred to these individuals as " Tham Tak" or "Broken Dharma People."
I would think the imports of Lao and Thai Music Videos, CDs or Movies would totally be unnecessary if you would considered that the Lao American and Overseas Lao in general's access to Hi-Tech equipments, First Class education and Financing. However, the reality seems to suggested that despite all of the advantages the Lao Overseas have over the Lao in the Lao PDR they still lack in substance and content. The only thing that they seems to have abudances of is their inflated ego as Mr. Lan xang and other Lao Overseas displayed here and elsewhere.
It seems to me you people in Laos does not know anything about your own religion. Maybe some Lao people in America can teach you Lao something.
Please save your sermon for your Lao American youth. Certain Lao American and Westernized Lao seems to know too much for their own good. In Laos we referred to these individuals as " Tham Tak" or "Broken Dharma People."
I would think the imports of Lao and Thai Music Videos, CDs or Movies would totally be unnecessary if you would considered that the Lao American and Overseas Lao in general's access to Hi-Tech equipments, First Class education and Financing. However, the reality seems to suggested that despite all of the advantages the Lao Overseas have over the Lao in the Lao PDR they still lack in substance and content. The only thing that they seems to have abudances of is their inflated ego as Mr. Lan xang and other Lao Overseas displayed here and elsewhere.
Lao People's Army
Are you saying Lao in LaoPDR have abundant of substance and content? Give me a break.
The girls in Laos PDR go to the temple wearing provocative clothes.
Why do you think they came up with an ordinance/dress code prohibiting those type of dress at Wat Lao?
You people grew up surrounded by Buddhism take it for granted. You peple become numb to it. You go to the temple like a mindless robot. You do your chant and mantra not knowing the meaning then when you step out of the temple gate you forgot why you go there in the first place.
Your precious leader try to get rid Buddhism as well. Your beloved Communist leaders. But since it was intergrated so much in the society they can't make a dent. They only monitored the abbots of the temple and waiting to arrest them when they go out of line. You got to love Communism and 2 faces of Laos PDR.
Go preach it to somone who care. You people are a lost cause. You people are even too stupid to realize Lao expatriates are on yourside.
Lao People's Army? I am laughing My Arse Off!! There are no Lao People's Army. There are only Vietnamese Army. You guys can't even fight. You have to contract it out to Viet Army.
Are you saying Lao in LaoPDR have abundant of substance and content? Give me a break.
The girls in Laos PDR go to the temple wearing provocative clothes.
Why do you think they came up with an ordinance/dress code prohibiting those type of dress at Wat Lao?
You people grew up surrounded by Buddhism take it for granted. You peple become numb to it. You go to the temple like a mindless robot. You do your chant and mantra not knowing the meaning then when you step out of the temple gate you forgot why you go there in the first place.
Your precious leader try to get rid Buddhism as well. Your beloved Communist leaders. But since it was intergrated so much in the society they can't make a dent. They only monitored the abbots of the temple and waiting to arrest them when they go out of line. You got to love Communism and 2 faces of Laos PDR.
Go preach it to somone who care. You people are a lost cause. You people are even too stupid to realize Lao expatriates are on yourside.
Lao People's Army? I am laughing My Arse Off!! There are no Lao People's Army. There are only Vietnamese Army. You guys can't even fight. You have to contract it out to Viet Army.
I just knew that you are the real enemy of Lao people. You know nothing about Lao people, but you said too many. Go to hell.
To some extend, it's good that you show yourself who you are, unlike somebody pretend that they have a good intention to Laos, but in reality otherwise. You asked youself and answered by yourself. The hell person to whom you have repllied is not Laos. He also in your gangs, no doubt.
I guess your monk in USA would not much different with the monks in Tibet where monks can have cars, gamble, hold hand of women, if not sleep with women.
You just described Lao women as the hell people. I am sure you have seen in America, otherwise you would have no idea to say stupidly like that. In Laos I have never seen as you have described and I don't even imagine.
Lanxang! I am really disspointed on you. I thought you are educated and reasonable person suited to respect, but in fact you are spoiled and disgrace person. You edited what is not Laos and never had happened.
Oy! No wonder you are really happy with your stupid king. And please go to hell with him!!!!!
Lan xang wrote: Are you saying Lao in LaoPDR have abundant of substance and content? Give me a break.
No, I was merely responding to your display of arrogance and your lack of substance to back up your inflated ego. I was merely reminding you to look yourself in the mirror first before the sermon. Hope that didn't hurt your inflated ego.
Lan xang wrote: The girls in Laos PDR go to the temple wearing provocative clothes.
Welcome to 2008 Laos, mate! The Lao PDR is certainly NOT run by the Taliban and Radical Muslim Cleric! LOL
Lan xang wrote: Why do you think they came up with an ordinance/dress code prohibiting those type of dress at Wat Lao?
As A former Lao Soldier and an Engineer I have never heard of such ordinance or law. However, there are guideline and custom.
Lan Xang Wrote:
You people grew up surrounded by Buddhism take it for granted. You peple become numb to it. You go to the temple like a mindless robot.
LOL You're worldview of the real world is incredible. In an ideal world I may have to agreed with you. Unfortunately we're not living in the ideal world. C'mon, you're educated in the West. Stop kidding yourself, here!
Lan xang wrote:
You do your chant and mantra not knowing the meaning then when you step out of the temple gate you forgot why you go there in the first place.
Welcome to the real world, mate! In the Lao PDR we face the real world situation in a daily basis.
Lan xang wrote: Your precious leader try to get rid Buddhism as well. Your beloved Communist leaders. But since it was intergrated so much in the society they can't make a dent.
Buddhism is no threat to our political establishment. We're the only Socialist country in the world that never shun religion from people life.
Lan Xang wrote:
They only monitored the abbots of the temple and waiting to arrest them when they go out of line. You got to love Communism and 2 faces of Laos PDR.
That is quite an exaggeration in your part. The Lao Government certainly does not have that kind of resource to wasted. However,Lao law do applies to Buddhist Monks as well.
Lan xang wrote: Go preach it to somone who care. You people are a lost cause. You people are even too stupid to realize Lao expatriates are on yourside.
LOL Who's preaching? I was merely responding to your display of arrogance. Whatever happened to your Overseas Lao adherence to the Democratic principle, that you people loves to preach so much about?
Lan xang wrote:
Lao People's Army? I am laughing My Arse Off!! There are no Lao People's Army. There are only Vietnamese Army. You guys can't even fight. You have to contract it out to Viet Army.
I'm glad that we can provided you with a sense of humor. I can guarantee you that it was not a laughing matter for the American Interventionists, Thai Intruders and their Lao lackeys, during the Indochina War and the 1980's Thai-Lao Border skirmishes.
Lao-Viet military alliance is no secret. Even the mighty American war machine needed an ally and coalition. Who do you think, helped the American fight the British during the American Revolutionary War? The French of course!
It seems to me you people in Laos does not know anything about your own religion. Maybe some Lao people in America can teach you Lao something.
Please save your sermon for your Lao American youth. Certain Lao American and Westernized Lao seems to know too much for their own good. In Laos we referred to these individuals as " Tham Tak" or "Broken Dharma People."
I would think the imports of Lao and Thai Music Videos, CDs or Movies would totally be unnecessary if you would considered that the Lao American and Overseas Lao in general's access to Hi-Tech equipments, First Class education and Financing. However, the reality seems to suggested that despite all of the advantages the Lao Overseas have over the Lao in the Lao PDR they still lack in substance and content. The only thing that they seems to have abudances of is their inflated ego as Mr. Lan xang and other Lao Overseas displayed here and elsewhere.
Lao People's Army
This person last time was under name of FOREVER, the one who always give comment sort of anti Lao people.
Presumably, he would try other way because the FOREVER doesn't work well.
Are you saying Lao in LaoPDR have abundant of substance and content? Give me a break.
The girls in Laos PDR go to the temple wearing provocative clothes.
Why do you think they came up with an ordinance/dress code prohibiting those type of dress at Wat Lao?
You people grew up surrounded by Buddhism take it for granted. You peple become numb to it. You go to the temple like a mindless robot. You do your chant and mantra not knowing the meaning then when you step out of the temple gate you forgot why you go there in the first place.
Your precious leader try to get rid Buddhism as well. Your beloved Communist leaders. But since it was intergrated so much in the society they can't make a dent. They only monitored the abbots of the temple and waiting to arrest them when they go out of line. You got to love Communism and 2 faces of Laos PDR.
Go preach it to somone who care. You people are a lost cause. You people are even too stupid to realize Lao expatriates are on yourside.
Lao People's Army? I am laughing My Arse Off!! There are no Lao People's Army. There are only Vietnamese Army. You guys can't even fight. You have to contract it out to Viet Army.
I just knew that you are the real enemy of Lao people. You know nothing about Lao people, but you said too many. Go to hell.
To some extend, it's good that you show yourself who you are, unlike somebody pretend that they have a good intention to Laos, but in reality otherwise. You asked youself and answered by yourself. The hell person to whom you have repllied is not Laos. He also in your gangs, no doubt.
I guess your monk in USA would not much different with the monks in Tibet where monks can have cars, gamble, hold hand of women, if not sleep with women.
You just described Lao women as the hell people. I am sure you have seen in America, otherwise you would have no idea to say stupidly like that. In Laos I have never seen as you have described and I don't even imagine.
Lanxang! I am really disspointed on you. I thought you are educated and reasonable person suited to respect, but in fact you are spoiled and disgrace person. You edited what is not Laos and never had happened.
Oy! No wonder you are really happy with your stupid king. And please go to hell with him!!!!!
It seems to me you people in Laos does not know anything about your own religion. Maybe some Lao people in America can teach you Lao something.
Please save your sermon for your Lao American youth. Certain Lao American and Westernized Lao seems to know too much for their own good. In Laos we referred to these individuals as " Tham Tak" or "Broken Dharma People."
I would think the imports of Lao and Thai Music Videos, CDs or Movies would totally be unnecessary if you would considered that the Lao American and Overseas Lao in general's access to Hi-Tech equipments, First Class education and Financing. However, the reality seems to suggested that despite all of the advantages the Lao Overseas have over the Lao in the Lao PDR they still lack in substance and content. The only thing that they seems to have abudances of is their inflated ego as Mr. Lan xang and other Lao Overseas displayed here and elsewhere.
Lao People's Army
This person last time was under name of FOREVER, the one who always give comment sort of anti Lao people.
Presumably, he would try other way because the FOREVER doesn't work well.
It'S so funny, Arh arh arh arh arh arh arh, I was not even in this Monk debate.
I just knew that you are the real enemy of Lao people. You know nothing about Lao people, but you said too many. Go to hell.
To some extend, it's good that you show yourself who you are, unlike somebody pretend that they have a good intention to Laos, but in reality otherwise. You asked youself and answered by yourself. The hell person to whom you have repllied is not Laos. He also in your gangs, no doubt.
I guess your monk in USA would not much different with the monks in Tibet where monks can have cars, gamble, hold hand of women, if not sleep with women.
You just described Lao women as the hell people. I am sure you have seen in America, otherwise you would have no idea to say stupidly like that. In Laos I have never seen as you have described and I don't even imagine.
Lanxang! I am really disspointed on you. I thought you are educated and reasonable person suited to respect, but in fact you are spoiled and disgrace person. You edited what is not Laos and never had happened.
Oy! No wonder you are really happy with your stupid king. And please go to hell with him!!!!!
My response is NOT for the good people of Laos that are good and reasonable people. If I offended them I am sorry.
IT IS a respond to the one that speak without being reasonable. I would love to address those people directly but they all have ANONYMOUS name. So I can't address them directly.
As for the inappropriate clothes, I got it from Vientiane Time Newspaper.
Women’s Union calls for appropriate dress
The Lao Women’s Union yesterday outlined its views on the setting of regulations for appropriate dress in order to conserve and encourage Lao culture.
Union Vice President Ms Khamchanh Phomsengsavanh said they hoped to raise awareness on this issue and conserve the beauty of Lao culture.
Representatives from the Ministry of Information and Culture, the Ministry of Education and the sectors concerned attended the meeting in Vientiane to discuss appropriate solutions on how to conserve and encourage traditional dress.
“Some people dress inappropriately, in ways that are not in keeping with Lao traditions. This can lead to social problems including rape, human trafficking, entertainment workers and family problems, and tarnish the country’s culture as well as the image of women,” Ms Khamchanh said.
The Lao government has encouraged a traditional culture that reflects national identity, especially in the way that women dress, as this plays an important role in giving a good example to others.
Ms Khamchanh said that social problems occurred for a variety of reasons, such as economic development and the opening of markets to the outside world.
She said that modern technology, the media and information sources were all growing rapidly, allowing a wide range of overseas products into the country that may be culturally unsuitable for Laos.
As for the Monarch, it is part of MY history since I lived during the time of the King...... but it might not be your. I can't just forget and erase that part of the history or memnories. If I did I would not be true to myself.
As for working with Lao people in Laos I am in a support of it. But it is a 2 ways street.
Just now you said 4 noble, is it for what category of Buddhist people?
Four noble truths is common to all Buddhists, regardless of Mahayana, Theravada or Vajrayana. Same Buddha, same Dhamma after all. Vinaya, as has been said by others, can be subject to interpretation influenced by local culture. Each sangha decides what is/is not acceptable for their practice. Even within Thailand, 'forest monks' can have different interpretations from those in city monasteries. Ultimately, what matters is 'intention', as ช้างน้อย said:
what the monk touch? how the monk think about touch? that touch for what?
& someone else also said:
A high spiritual practice person wasn't thinking anything, except trying to help the lady out and then the whole matter is disappear, on the other hand, the onlooker/s actually thinks more than the that person. The onlooker/s keeps it in his/her mind all the time
which is described in this Zen story:
Two monks were traveling together, an older monk and a younger monk. They noticed a young woman at the edge of a stream, afraid to cross. The older monk picked her up, carried her across the stream and put her down safely on the other side. The younger monk was astonished, but he didn't say anything until their journey was over. "Why did you carry that woman across the stream? Monks aren't supposed to touch any member of the opposite sex." said the younger monk. The older monk replied "I left her at the edge of the river, are you still carrying her?"
If all Lao Buddhist laymen really observed all five precepts, Beer Lao would have gone out of business...show me a Lao wedding where no alcohol is served ;) I guess your monk in USA would not much different with the monks in Tibet where monks can have cars, gamble, hold hand of women, if not sleep with women.
Don't forget that there are Lao Theravada monks living in USA too ;) There are well- & ill-behaved monks everywhere. What does one gain by saying which school of Buddhism or monks in which country are better or worse? Does that make you a better person & benefit others?
Here also abnormal for me. I have never seen our Lao monk pray respect to laypeople, to say nothing women. What in our culture is monk is considered as person in higher stutus.
Simply a matter of cultural difference? Buddhism doesn't 'belong' to any one culture, it originated in India & spread all over the world. Don't think anyone would expect a Lao Theravada monk to do the same thing, because they understand that he comes from a different culture.
That the Dalai Lama can bow his head to a layperson, shows that he can let go of 'self' & all those feelings of self-importance. Look at the whole photo, not just the left half - the lady in the photo is also paying her respects to him at the same time. The respect is mutual. You people grew up surrounded by Buddhism take it for granted. You peple become numb to it. You go to the temple like a mindless robot. You do your chant and mantra not knowing the meaning then when you step out of the temple gate you forgot why you go there in the first place.
Exactly what some monks have observed about some of the people who come to their temples, in Laos, Thailand, Singapore, etc. They go through the motions, but despite the amount of offerings made & incense burnt, how much of the teachings actually translates into daily thoughts & actions? Some say that it applies to a certain percentage of any group of people who are 'born into' a religion. And please go to hell with him!!!!!
As a Buddhist, why wish misfortune upon others?
Wish someone like devaking from inlao.net would post a more rational point of view here, & one that is from a Lao monk.
My response is NOT for the good people of Laos that are good and reasonable people. If I offended them I am sorry.
Well, you gotta make it clear. Not everyone in the Lao PDR are pyschic.
Lanxang wrote:
IT IS a respond to the one that speak without being reasonable. I would love to address those people directly but they all have ANONYMOUS name. So I can't address them directly.
Generalizing the entire country and people will not do you or anyone any good. There are good and bad in every society and what not. However, one must know how to differentiate between the bad and the good.
Lanxang wrote: As for the inappropriate clothes, I got it from Vientiane Time Newspaper.
Women’s Union calls for appropriate dress
The Lao Women’s Union yesterday outlined its views on the setting of regulations for appropriate dress in order to conserve and encourage Lao culture.
As I stated earlier, that is only a guideline being proposed by the Lao Women's Union, to bring awareness to the general public. That is far from an city ordinance or Law.
Lanxang wrote:
As for working with Lao people in Laos I am in a support of it. But it is a 2 ways street.
As a proud citizen of the Lao PDR, I never have any issue working with anyone. Lao people are known to be the most polite and courteous people.
I fear that someone will tell me the old monk can sleep with women because he hasn't had kids who will hold his surname. Otherwise, he would not be able to be reborn again when he has not kids, oh my God!
Or one want to say that the old monk can own car because he has lots of to do, he needs to travel very far. You are selfish, you are not monk anymore. You just dress like monk. That's what I want to say when you did not follow the Buddha's rules.
I saw lots of fake monks in my place coming from the country near LAos. That is why local people here really hate monks. Presumably, they think all monks would be like these fake monks.
What the fake monks did here in my place? I don't want to name the country. They begged money from people who passed by. They acted like beggars. Actually, I never seen like this in Laos.
I saw lots of fake monks in my place coming from the country near LAos.
What the fake monks did here in my place? I don't want to name the country. They begged money from people who passed by. They acted like beggars.
If we are talking about the same country near Laos...well those fake monks (& fake mae chii too) also come to my country (further south) to beg for money. Here most Buddhists are Mahayana, not many are familiar with the precepts for Theravada monks, so many don't know that Theravada monks aren't supposed to beg for money too. & they end up with a negative impression of Theravada monks from that country near Laos. The embassy of that country near Laos had to issue a press statement to inform the public that true Theravada monks from their country are not supposed to do that.
Think if more laymen have a deeper understanding of Dhamma, & learn to think & question instead of blindly accepting what others tell them, it'd be much harder for such fake monks to pull the wool over their eyes. Doesn't hurt for laymen to read something about the Vinaya & how it came about, just for curiousity & knowledge. For the Buddhists, it's your religion after all =)
