Yep....I am the same person responding to the coffee topic. 
Exchanging opions and learning from one another, this is what
i called taking step foward toward solidarity and eventually
prosperity.  Seriously...my parents and whole families were in
the coffee business before i was born. 

typutthana wrote:

---

   Now a day there countless number of vietnames and the
chiness are moving into laos.  And at the same time the 
youth and able laotian are going across Mekong river to
Thailand to find job.  Every decent lots of land in the big
city and the firtle land from north to south are being leases
or occupied by the foreigners.  And in the near future laotian
will become slave to the foreigners in their own house and
the own country.  The only future felt for them is to clean the
street and wash the bathroom. The sad thing is there's
nothing we the laotian and the govenment of laos can do.
Surely  i am worried and concern about laos present and
future.  Every night i prayed to god al mighty to bless, protect
and guided her to the right path and i will continue to do so
for as long as i live.

---

Kenno’s rationalization is kind of out of date and out of line by basing his theory to 1940s, 50s, and 60s.  The Viets and the Chinese at the time were nothing but desperate peasants fleeing from their own homeland due to an oppressive communist regime and unbearable poverty that they faced daily. Any accumulated wealth acquired and passed on to posterity was from hard work and perseverance toiling in the fields nights and days knowing that they were immigrants arriving in a foreign land. The Chinese that came to the U.S were not any better than Slave Africans. They built railroads in San Francisco; they had no justice and they were treated like property. Racists’ attacks against them were rampant and the only means for them to survive was to integrate themselves and that’s how China Town eventually came about. Eastern Europeans were fleeing Soviet Union for a similar reason: Poverty, Repressive Regime, most was very poor and many women including minors wandering in the streets prostituting in major cities. Laotians were also poor refugees sharing the same plight when they arrived in the West. They did not come with power and wealth but dirty and poor. Many of us were not even literate in our own language. The only difference was that we were treated better.

The Viets and the Chinese who came to Laos in our modern day are quite powerful. They have the cash and the agenda and for sure, they will have the say. It does not take a billion people from China or 70 million from Vietnam to give orders behind closed doors. Laotians cannot let their guards down and watch out for traitors who would not hesitate to collude with foreigners in the expense of their fellow compatriots. Money, sex, power and wealth are the essential parts transcending our own ethics. These of course, occurred in every class of society even in religious kingdom. Humankind given opportunity, would easily forget about moral value. Laotians, even though express strong faith in Buddhism and strongly believe in Karma, but the desire for a quick access to wealth would not deter someone from corruption. It is not uncommon that most leaders highly proclaim their altruism, a promise for the concern of its citizenries, but in practice, they and their families are always first. In general speaking, our Lao people are humble by its nature and unquestionably obey the superiors. No one would want to be treated as a second-class citizen in his/her own country. It is better to be safe than sorry. Yes, development, modernization must continue so long as our people are benefiting more from it than facing detrimental disadvantage from those foreigners who just settled in Laos a couple of days ago.

BLM2010 wrote:

---

typutthana wrote:

---

   Now a day there countless number of vietnames and the
chiness are moving into laos.  And at the same time the 
youth and able laotian are going across Mekong river to
Thailand to find job.  Every decent lots of land in the big
city and the firtle land from north to south are being leases
or occupied by the foreigners.  And in the near future laotian
will become slave to the foreigners in their own house and
the own country.  The only future felt for them is to clean the
street and wash the bathroom. The sad thing is there's
nothing we the laotian and the govenment of laos can do.
Surely  i am worried and concern about laos present and
future.  Every night i prayed to god al mighty to bless, protect
and guided her to the right path and i will continue to do so
for as long as i live.

---

Please allow me to join you in praying for our motherland. I hope Laos introduces the practice of eminent domain with just compensation. I fully understand it is normally within the constitutional rights to expropriate private estate for public use provided that it benefits majority of people, but the compensation must be fair and reasonable according to the current market value, so land owners who hold equitable titles can, upon their wish, buy it elsewhere and start a new life. I had learned more than 250 families, mostly poor are affected by the Viet-owned Long Thanh Golf Course Project whereby the offered compensation was many times less than fair market value. It is pretty sad for them to face constant threats of arrest and long jail term if they don't abandon their communities and farms. Losing their estates means losing their rights to make a living there, rights to sell or deed it to their heirs. Grabbing land from our own people and give it to Vietnamese and at the same time, having the Viet security guards or soldiers positioned on the ceded land is unthinkable. What about Laos national sovereignty, or is it being compromised too? I think this Long Tanh Golf Course should rather be called a Long Tanh Golf Curse.

I will pray for the motherland to be liberated from being swallowed by foreigners. Sa Tu.

 

 http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LA21Ae01.html

 

-- Edited by BLM2010 on Tuesday 26th of January 2010 07:04:29 AM

---

Sorry BLM Thats just too depressing.

Just in case people read my brother BLM attachment and are concerned. see below statements maybe its help us feel a little better.  Trust me Lao governments are not stupid I can see the different between 1975 and now.

Laos

Laos follows the Communist form of land ownership.  All land belongs to the people and is controlled by the State.  Lao citizens are granted land use ownership rights but the system does not represent fee simple ownership of land.  Foreigners are prohibited from owning land.  Foreigners can lease land although generally the lease needs to be 30 years in length.  These are some of the provisions over land lease by foreigners:

The average duration of leases is not more than 30 years, but the term of the lease can be extended on a case-by-case basis:

• land leased for building residences: 30 years maximum with a possible extension
• land leased for investment and business activities, based on the scale of each project: 50 years maximum with a possible extension
• land leased as part of a specific economic zone: 75 years maximum
• land leased for diplomatic purposes and international organizations: 99 years maximum or as otherwise provided by agreements reached between the two governments.

Any government in what ever form by taking the land from its own
citizen and renting it to the foreigners is dead wrong and their action
is right down stupid. I was wondering if the laos government has
ever ask their friend to return the favor by asking their friend the
right to  leasing the property and the shipping port for the next 90
years. I bet you that would help laos economy out alot after all laos
is a land lock country. What do you think?.  Do you think that they
going to do it?.

2010 wrote:

---

Hi nangdarling! Do you know if there is a provision in the contract lease that the leasor can pre-terminate the contract if the leasee is found to be utilizing the land to do 'dirty' business or doing activities detrimental either to the environment or public? 90 yrs max seems quite long though. It will limit Laos to explore other opportunities in the future if majority will opt for such looooong term contract.

---

DEATHEP wrote:

---

BLM, it's hard not to agree with such a well written post, but I do feel like you present far too much pessimism toward the subject.

Yes the games were reliant on foreign generosity, but I absolutely view this not as aid, but rather investment. Currently, Laos has little capacity for any real world wide industry other than tourism. Realistically, how else would you expect progression if it were not for the foreign cash flow?

Indeed, the games intended to boast the prestige of the government, but is that not a good thing? Is it not desirable for investors to have a stable government? To be honest, I found it was futile to hope that a government will change its shady practices, so now I am expecting it to learn and outgrow their mistakes. It will take time, and it won't be pretty, but I have confidence that the increased attention and pressure to raise standards will help weed out what needs to be weeded out.

I do agree that these debts seems out of line, but I'd rather be like it is now, rather than having no chance of progress(or delaying it another 10 or 15 years).

---

What you said also carries some weights in it, but my point is more about being realistic rather than pessimistic. We have yet reached developing status and the aim is 2020 but we were so eager to host the games at the cost of our own people especially those who had to surrender their estates to foreigners. What were the concessions, and compromises to Vietnam and China on our part in securing their promises for SEA games to be realized? It is not like we are asking our parents or our aunties for a couple hundred dollars. I think the price was too great and it might take generations to repay.

If the game was logically more for the boost of the regime's prestige as you put it, then I must say, "That is really sad" You don't need t boost the regime's image to attract investments. Entrepreneurs are quite smart to learn about stability in each country they plan to do business. I wouldn't be critical about it had we already reached the developing status. China, for example, they did not beg to host Olympics until they were financially ready and they spent billions of dollars benefiting domestic contractors immensely and also foreign contractors to the extent. Their people had legitimate claims of pride. Don't get me wrong, I am happy for our people but as I said, I walk the fine line between pride and happiness.

With regard to leases, it is usually 51 years for agricultural and 99 years for residential and before contract expires, it can be renegotiated between the concerned parties. Laos' economy in general is not doing so bad at all given the fact that they came about from extremely a very low base.  I hope the government of Lao PDR selects a certain province to aggressively build its economy because in doing so, would let some people get rich first. The wealthier people become, more taxes can be collected by the government and more money to spend on education, healthcare, and on other shortcomings and social safety net can be provided to the poor. As our economy is growing, more cities in other provinces will benefit from it gradually.  We also need private media and allow greater freedom of the press to unmask those who dare to corrupt but if only state-controlled media is allowed, it would make it harder to fight cooperative colluding government officials. Then, what do we have, pomp and peasantry? This will definitely creates serious problems in the future. Economic growth would also trigger unintended consequences such as: rising unemployment, growing income gaps, endemic corruption, rising numbers in malefactors, environmental degradation and eventually leads to social malaise, social tension boiling over into violent clashes among the rich and the poor especially the ones who earn less than $1 a day.

Laos can build a well-off society. Our people are less aggressive in nature and therefore, social cohesion is not hard to achieve if we can curb corruption accordingly. I often heard Lao people said, "Leo tae chao tae nai pern" To be honest with you, I became discourage after reading the news about that Golf Curse Project which owned by Viet. Not that I am against investment but is it necessary to have a golf course when there is one nearby without players and in the expense of those poor families? I don't know if you had read the related link I posted.

typutthana wrote:

---

Any government in what ever form by taking the land from its own
citizen and renting it to the foreigners is dead wrong and their action
is right down stupid. I was wondering if the laos government has
ever ask their friend to return the favor by asking their friend the
right to  leasing the property and the shipping port for the next 90
years. I bet you that would help laos economy out alot after all laos
is a land lock country. What do you think?.  Do you think that they
going to do it?.

-- Edited by typutthana on Wednesday 27th of January 2010 04:02:51 AM

---

its a common practice to lease land to foreigners. Nothing comes with out price.

About 90% of beach land in Phuket is controlled by foreigners through Thai nominees, a leading research body has found.

A similar situation exists in other prime tourism destinations in provinces such as Chiang Mai and Rayong.

Local officials and legal experts have helped clear the way for foreign investors to take control of the country's rice farms and property in resort provinces, according to research on foreign land ownership by the Thailand Research Fund.

typutthana wrote:

---

  Blah..Blaaah....Blaaaaah.  Just one...one  example
where the vietnamess and the chiness government
kick it people out of their land to please the laotian
business person or laotian government.  If you can't
come up with one the rest of your examles has no
meaning to me. 

______________________________________________________________

if, Lao person or Lao government can come up with the kind of money and plans for business that will satisfied the lease agreements, we too can obtain a lease in a foreign country. didn't you said your parent own coffee plantation?...why don't you show them the money......and set up a processing plant for your parents coffee.

Well, if you never had the pleasure to read them then, I don't see why you would have the pleasure to read them now.  I simply close my case.

Hey there Bruceman!

Welcome back.

2010 wrote:

---

Hi my darling. I didnt say that the golf curse (as BLM calls it) is a dirty business. What im trying to understand is whether the govt considered having a safety net to protect its people in case they unknowingly made dealings with vultures.

I will give you an example. In a faraway land, one local gov't. executive leased this promising mountainous stretch of land to ??? foreign investor. The company hired its own engineers, foreman and managers, hard labor goes to the locals. One side of the mt. was developed into mid level subdivisions, the other side was a quarrying site. After few years of project completion, the side of the mt. made into subdivision caved in. There wasn't even an earthquake, but the event was preceeded by moonsoon rains. It was found later that tunnels were built underneath. And the materials used to build the houses in the subd. were low cost. These plus the rains and the balding mountains all resulted to hundreds of families buried alive. I participated in the retrival operation. I've seen and smelled death.

Now that is what I call dirty business. If something like this happen to laos who would be held accountable?

-- Edited by 2010 on Friday 29th of January 2010 12:28:58 PM

__________________________________________________________


when leasing land out to foreigners the lease agreements go hand in hand with the business plans...each step of building the business there is a need for inspection so its up to us to monitor and contol our own policies.

I understand your concerns but as a country moving toward new era we need to take risk we are the way we are before because we are not a risk taker.

Lan_Xang wrote:

---

Hey there Bruceman!

Welcome back.

---

Thank you and I am glad to know that you are still around.  I can hardly wait to read your post for it is always deemed with intuition on any subject matters. In fact, our visions of certain affairs or maxim regarding the motherland in the past were mutually more correlate (like a palm print on the passport) than parallel most of the time. I hope you would at least once in a while share some thought and opinion with us here.

Anonymous wrote:

---

 

Help....... I don't understand 
what Nangdarling is try to say. 

 

---

'' its a common practice to lease land to foreigners. Nothing comes with out price.

About 90% of beach land in Phuket is controlled by foreigners through Thai nominees, a leading research body has found.

A similar situation exists in other prime tourism destinations in provinces such as Chiang Mai and Rayong.

Local
officials and legal experts have helped clear the way for foreign
investors to take control of the country's rice farms and property in
resort provinces, according to research on foreign land ownership by
the Thailand Research Fund.''

At  least their government helped their people and allowed local Thai residents sold their lands at their own will and their own set price to foreigner investors instead of made their local unwillingly  sale their lands at the bottom of the price or forced the residents to give up their lands altogether for foreigner investors.