How to cope with corruption? Here is Singaporean experince.

Date: Sep 22, 2007

How to cope with corruption? Here is Singaporean experince.

Date: Sep 22, 2007

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All above mentioned were had been done and are doing now in Singapore. Looking back on the situation from where they started, I think, it was not different with current situation of our country such as weak laws, gathering of evidence was difficult, the people generally were less educated and did not know their rights and public officers were not adequately paid compared with those in the private sector. No wonder, Singaporean President said that the situation in Laos is nothing different from the time when they got independent, when he visited Laos 2 years ago.
Having read this article, firstly, I felt that the example is most important for our officials to win public trust and confidence for people. Yes, if I like to talk about good people examples, but I myself do not follow that good examples, I think nobody would believe me. No wonder, not so long ago our PM Bouasone Bouphavanh said he needed our officials who act, but only talk.
Secondly, I felt that the adequate salaries are also important. As you have read from above article, they raised salaries for government officials. In a bid to stem corruption, Russian President Vladimir Putin also has issued a decree raising the salaries of government ministers, as well as thousands of lower-level state employees.
But I wonder how they got money to pay more salaries to their officials. In this regard, our government would be able to do or not, I doubt. If not definitely, the corruption would keep on going, but if yes, where money would come from? It is a big question mark.
I have known from this website about corruption in Laos. One said that the problem of NOT PAYING TAX legally is widespread in LAO. His wife works for a very famous Lao restaurant right in the centre of Vientiane, I do not name the restaurant here, but what happened, the owner of this restaurant told me to show the fraud or cheat receipts of the restaurant business to the Lao tax man, so he paid less tax. His nephew just opens a games shop, but he told me he only gave some 200 000k to the POR BARN so he could help to talk to the tax man. Other said: “About tax I know personally that entrepreneurs who often pay bribe to officials concerned as presents (pot de vin) to avoid paying tax and they say officials cannot refuse to help them to pay less tax, I’m sorry to say that this kind of thing really exist and sorry not to be able to mention their names here”.
Yes, but I or probably you don’t know who exactly do the corruption in our country, although I must admit that some of our officials are really rich, but some are really poor, let say teachers for example as mentioned the other tropic. That I absolutely know.
However, the mentioned corruption may be left from our system soon. From now on as we know that the Law on State Inspection, which will enable our officials to work more effectively, is going be approved in near future. That is why we hope that under our PM Bouasone Bouphavanh, everything would be on track.
That’s all my comments. Some mistakes could be found, do forgive. I do hope this article would be useful for you to know how they coped with corruption, at least for improving our own knowledge. I would be really thankful to all people who want to share their experience about this topic. I don’t mind to learn no matter from where the experiences. Here I presented you the eradicating corruption experiences of Singapore. And the more importantly, may I emphasize a little bit more that the corruption has nothing to do with one party or multiparty, as you might observe from this article. Look at our neighboring country, there are lots of parties, but the number of corruption is also widespread no less than Laos. In Singapore almost we can say one party system, but the corruption is almost nonexistent. I also do hope that you our new generation will become a leader or member of our parliament and talk about this issue on behalf of me. I believe in your bright future which is the future of our country. Thank you very for your reading.
Regards,
TSP

References:

http://www.info.tdri.or.th/reports/unpublished/os_paper/ali.pdf
http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/country.cfm?ID=Singapore
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Singapore

Date: Sep 22, 2007

Thank you for sharing the Singaporean's experience of coping with corruption TSP.
However, we have to consider that Laos and Singapore are totally different in terms of education, economic and technology.

To fight against the corruption, we, Laos, need not only the anti-corruption's law and regulation on the text book, but also the real implementation. It is also very hard for our country to monitor corruptions. First of all, our people are not well trained on how to monitor, what and where to monitor. Second, we lack of technology to compile, collect and intepret data even in Vientiane city. Finally, the low salary of staff and governor will always drive our people to conduct corruption.

To solve corruption,
1. Improve law
2. Real action against corruption
3. Develop and improve methods on how to editing and monitoring corruption
3. Introduction the bad effect of corruption to all students, start from primary school, so that it can absorb to their blood, heart and minds.
4. All media should promote about anti-corruption nationwide.
5. Cooperate with international organization to solve the problem

That are some of my idea

Khob chai

THK

Date: Sep 22, 2007

Refer to person who argued that we have to consider that Laos and Singapore are totally different in terms of education, economic and technology. Yes, you are right. But then we don't need to compare Laos with current Singapore, we must compare with Singapore in 1965, then just got independent from Malaysia. When they started coping with curuption, their situation not much different with our country now such as weak laws, gathering of evidence was difficult, the people generally were less educated and did not know their rights and public officers were not adequately paid compared with those in the private sector as mentioned by TSP.

Talking about the method of monitoring the corruption, I think it's not hard, just count how many they earn and how many they spend their money.

The example is also important. If the big brothers do, why not the young bothers follow. That is a big problem. No one can control each other. The corruption definitely will go on.

Date: Sep 22, 2007

Yes, I agree with person who just mentioned that an example is most important. Our officials always mention the example of HO CHI MINH, but whether they follow, I doubt.

Date: Sep 22, 2007

Yes, punishment for corruption is also important. If the wrongdoers just need to move from one to other position, like that nobody would be afraid of the punishment.

Date: Sep 22, 2007

I believe that to gradually stamp out the corruption, Lao government must seriously look at the salary of lao public servants, lao police force. The government workers must have enough money for living, the best way is through research and survey, see how much a lao public servant must pay for food in the market, let say a lao public servant family must spend 20 000k a day for food then a month will cost them 600 000k therefore the salary must be 2,000 000k a month, because beside food you must add the money for other expenses.
Otherwise it would be difficult to deal with corruption.
Also Lao government must make lao citizen fully understand about LAO's Constitution and lao citizen must follow the LAW. The one who did things against the LAW then they must be responsible for their act, and face consequences accordingly.

samakomlao · Guru

How about dead penalty ? :D

Date: Sep 23, 2007

Dead is really suitable for those who do corruption. They are absolutely selfish. While others suffer from poorness, they enjoy with their wealth.

Date: Sep 23, 2007

You cannot do, unless you remove all the people doing corruption. All you can do is fight is as best you can and hold everyone to the same standard.
Even if you remove all the people I doubt it could be done. One of my cats steals food from the other while the third turns a blind eye to the crime.

Date: Sep 23, 2007

You will never make any country corruption free unless you remove all the human beings because we are all greedy and selfish at heart.

Date: Sep 23, 2007

You take any country in this world, corruption prevails there. There is nothing a single person can do to make a country corruption free because now days every one is directly or indirectly related to corruption. The only thing we can do is that we can reduce the levels of corruption in our country that also making the people aware of the disadvantages of the corruption.

Date: Sep 23, 2007

The main thing is every citizen should realize that we should not encourage corruption!! When the citizens refuse to give bribe! Then that’s the end of corruption.

Date: Sep 23, 2007

In Laos, law is not law and that's why corrupting is going on. People from top to bottom don't follow the law, take an example of that video " riding in Vietiane" we could see that there were lot of people don't obey the law of traffic. In addition, a low rank official have to do what they have to do because the salary is very low " Mun Bor Paul Khin". If the boss can do it why can not they do?

FOREVER

Date: Sep 23, 2007

1. there is only law of against corruption but no law of erasing corruption. why? i am studying in Hanoi Vietnam, my teacher told me that coruption is some kind of energy in the world that can help people can stand normally. so if this energy is too weak or too strong people could be unnormal. so we have to accept corruption at an exactly level.
2. why? you earn your live by your work. you also expect to become rich by your work too. am i right ? the answer is corruption because your salary too low, in the same time most of the member of Lao PR Party can not do private business ( directly or in directly), only some member can do so ( noted in Lao PR Party regulation).
3. many people who is smart deciding not work for government, some of people who is smart were treated un appropriated or kicked out of the goverment.
4. officials who are not very smart they do not know how to make big progress for their work but they are very good at corruption972

Date: Sep 23, 2007

in fact Lao government accept corruption becasue they always say : personal advantages goes along with public advantages ( phon pa yot suan tua tit phan kap phon pa yot suan luam). so...when you give your signature for a project ( which providing public advantages) now where is your personal advantages? take it easy it is in this evelope ( wow! 50.000USD ). i think it is quite fare, because goverment can not farely pay directly for his brain's value
Jit

Date: Sep 23, 2007

i agree with Jit and the one above jit, but eat less please ( kin noy noy por). no body blames you if you KIN NOY but problem is you eat too much! hiiiiiiiiiiiiiii biggrin

Date: Sep 23, 2007

I agree with all the comments which said that not a single country in this world is free of corruption. I live in Australia and last night I saw in the news they were talking about corruption in Police force of Victoria, so corruption still does exist even rich country like Australia. Some country like China many chineses argued with western media that some of old chinese traditional things like people used to have some kind of gifts give to each other, but for western people they regarded that as a kind of bribery. Like if you visit a monk and you have some gift for that monk....western people think that is some kind of corruption or bribery.

I believe corruption is a big issue, and Lao government should address this problem more frequently and encourage people to avoid doing things which lead to bribery and corruption.

Date: Sep 23, 2007

money is never enough if your hunger of it is unlimitted, my sister is working for an international organization in Lao, her salary is around 800$/ month but her income each moth is more than 1000$, because she abcd....heeeeeeeeee biggrin even some times i see she bringing something home from her office: A4 paper, pens..haaaaaaa biggrin , now let's compare her salary with Lao goverment's official salary, so who not corupt is very stupid

Date: Sep 23, 2007

Singaporean President said that the situation in Laos is nothing different from the time when they got independent, when he visited Laos 2 years ago

Refer to person who argued that we have to consider that Laos and Singapore are totally different in terms of education, economic and technology. Yes, you are right. But then we don't need to compare Laos with current Singapore, we must compare with Singapore in 1965, then just got independent from Malaysia. When they started coping with curuption, their situation not much different with our country now such as weak laws, gathering of evidence was difficult, the people generally were less educated and did not know their rights and public officers were not adequately paid compared with those in the private sector as mentioned by TSP.
that is true. what i saw in Laos in 2006 & 2007 is just like how my parents described their younger days more than 40 years ago...they didn't trust the police in Singapore because they were too corrupt, & many people from my parents' generation didn't finish studying primary school (especially girls...even today some of my aunts still cannot read nor write).but something to consider is, perhaps Singapore has had an easier time dealing with corruption because the country is so small, & it is an island - not much place to hide & hard to run away from the law. unlike Laos which is so huge, & where it is easy to slip across borders to neighbouring countries.about the pay for public servants...brings to mind the discussion about teachers' salaries in another topic...public servants including teachers are highly paid in Singapore (relative to cost of living), & they can get salary increments & bonuses.in Laos teachers (in government schools) told me that they earn only about USD30 per month, & they don't receive the money every month, but only once every 3 months. sometimes they have to wait longer than 3 months to receive their salary, & while waiting they have to borrow from relatives & friends. that's why many of them work on their family farm or business, operate guesthouses, give private English lessons at night, work as trekking guides on weekends & during the school vacation, or quit their teaching job to do any of the above full-time...they can't imagine earning USD30 per month for the rest of their career. (having said that i do know Lao friends who still want to become teachers because they feel it is their 'calling' & they want to improve the lives of other Lao.)won't be surprised if the situation is the same for other 'low-ranking' Lao public servants? a Lao friend's brother is a policeman, his salary is also about the same. according to him some people think that being a policeman is quite a good job if you only have high school education - because you can earn from collecting bribes...
Talking about the method of monitoring the corruption, I think it's not hard, just count how many they earn and how many they spend their money.

some people joke that Singapore has 'replaced corruption...with administration'. there can be a hell lot of paperwork, record keeping, double-checking & scrutiny of accounts in order to keep track of every cent of public money. it's not impossible, but personally i wouldn't say it's easy.

- someone from the country that TSP likes to talk about biggrin

Date: Sep 23, 2007

Our lawmakers likely do not work hard enough on this matter or maybe don’t know how to act. Most Lao people live under the poverty line due to corruption in our society. Some of our lawmakers might not think of the Lao people benefit, but think of themselves, meaning depend on government. They forget they represent the Lao people. Some might just accept that the corruption is normal thing in our society, arguing our country is poor and cannot compare with other countries. They just enjoy the position which they have now. If they do something against the government, they might be afraid of losing their jobs. That means they are there just for formality. If that’s the case, no wonder the corruption is widespread in our country.

Date: Sep 23, 2007

Corruption cannot be eliminated from society since the corrupt people are interdependent. To make the anti-corruption commission independent, it has to be empowered to investigate the source of wealth of public representatives.

Date: Sep 23, 2007

A proactive private sector and a vibrant media are needed in order to sound out people’s voice alongside a deterrent legislation, citing the success of Singapore. People’s voice is very active even in the one party system in Singapore.

Date: Sep 23, 2007

Follow the example of the French, then follow the example of the Americans, then follow the example of the Vietnamese, now follow the example of the Singaporeans? When is Laos going to stop 'following the example' of other countries and start setting its own example.

Date: Sep 23, 2007

Yes, you are right. Lao has our ouwn model, but no harm to look around yourself so that you can know how people did or do. It is nothing different with what we will do business we would learn from people who succeeded in their businesses, but not from the failed people. Is it right?

By the way, I don't understand you well. What do you mean by "setting our own examples'? What kind of Lao examples that we have or we will have? Is it the that we have now?

Date: Sep 23, 2007

I do agree with person who argued that Lao needs to have our own model, nodoubt. And I also think that the person who posted this topic doesn't want either that Lao should copy all Singapore experiences.

But I think it is just having a look how they did so that Lao can have some idea. Just like people around the world, they drive cars to their work, I think, Lao people should drive cars to our works too. Or do you think that we should ride the elephants or buffalo to our works?

Date: Sep 23, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

money is never enough if your hunger of it is unlimitted, my sister is working for an international organization in Lao, her salary is around 800$/ month but her income each moth is more than 1000$, because she abcd....heeeeeeeeee even some times i see she bringing something home from her office: A4 paper, pens..haaaaaaa , now let's compare her salary with Lao goverment's official salary, so who not corupt is very stupid

Yes, I really respect your opinion in terms of a truth. Your opinion is a representation of those people who unfortunately corrupted in Laos. They like to talk without a shame or "Yang Ai" if you like, that only stupid people do not corrupt. Some even said they did not corrupt, but received the presents, which sometimes the beatiful cars, from good people who really love them.

However, if talking in terms of justice or future of our country, I really hate this kind of people who do corruption. They think only of themselves, but forget the people around them. The poor officials, who have no opportinity to receive such presents, somtimes even have no meals for their kids to eat. Their kids are also human being but suffering from hungry. Oh God!

Date: Sep 24, 2007

A good subject for Samaomlao.

The analogy of the video of the driver in traffic is a good one. The street is full of people not following the rules for driving but most don't even realize they are doing wrong. Even the police don't understand the traffic laws because they have never seen traffic in a country where people follow traffic law.

The question is how to get from the place where everyone breaks traffic law to the place where all drive in rows following all the rules.

Saying that all countries have corruption is worse than useless, it is defeatist, the problem will never be solved if one simply throws up ones hands. All countries have corruption, true. Also there are different amounts of corruption in all countries and Singapore has one of the lowest. If you measured corruption and China had 1000, Singapore would have less than 1.

Date: Sep 24, 2007

If I had to give my impression as an outsider, I would say Lao people are pretty honest. At the market, for thieves, everything. I think good corruption enforcement would achieve quick results in Laos. You don't need a PHD in philosophy to understand what corruption is, most people understand the most obvious bribe and with a little publicity the corruption of insider deals would be understood.

There is a technique called the "sting". A police officer tries to bribe someone. If they accept the bribe they are arrested. The best place to begin a sting is with the police themselves. A sting not only stops the person who accepted the bribe but makes it hard to accept a bribe from a stranger, they might be a policeman.

You need to pay all goverment employees very well, welcome to taxes. First tax beer and lao khao and ciggarettes, then income and luxury itemes. Then do the thing with auditing officials, and taxing incomes over 50,000 $ per year. There are a lot of rich people in Laos. Sorry, your mom and dad need to pay taxes. If you get rid of corruption everyone will pay not just you.

Deng Xio Ping the leader of China in the early 90s had very interesting thoughts on corruption, I wish he had been younger and had the opportunity to implement his ideas.

I wish the Lao people the best of luck on this very important issue.

Sok Dee

chiip · Guru

our anti-corruption system has a very , very long way to reach its goal if the lawmakers continue to use low ranking auditors to audit the account of departments or ministries... imagine , the head of section of auditor is assigned to inspect a department , would he have enough power or authority to achieve his duty ? i think the auditing system must be independent and must be under the supervision of the prime minister himself who is powerful enough to get rid of corruption... if we continue to do as we did in the past...our hope to see our contry`s transparenecy will never take shape...
regards.

Date: Sep 27, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

If I had to give my impression as an outsider, I would say Lao people are pretty honest. At the market, for thieves, everything. I think good corruption enforcement would achieve quick results in Laos. You don't need a PHD in philosophy to understand what corruption is, most people understand the most obvious bribe and with a little publicity the corruption of insider deals would be understood.

There is a technique called the "sting". A police officer tries to bribe someone. If they accept the bribe they are arrested. The best place to begin a sting is with the police themselves. A sting not only stops the person who accepted the bribe but makes it hard to accept a bribe from a stranger, they might be a policeman.

You need to pay all goverment employees very well, welcome to taxes. First tax beer and lao khao and ciggarettes, then income and luxury itemes. Then do the thing with auditing officials, and taxing incomes over 50,000 $ per year. There are a lot of rich people in Laos. Sorry, your mom and dad need to pay taxes. If you get rid of corruption everyone will pay not just you.

Deng Xio Ping the leader of China in the early 90s had very interesting thoughts on corruption, I wish he had been younger and had the opportunity to implement his ideas.

I wish the Lao people the best of luck on this very important issue.

Sok Dee

I like this comment about corruption.