China shakes up the world and... Laos !!!

samakomlao · Guru

China shakes up the world and... Laos !!!

Date: Mar 29, 2008

Laos, which is pursuing economic development under a single-party regime just like China.
That's why Laos prefers to choose China rather than other countries. When we have something in common we can more understand each other and learn from each other, no doubt.

Beijing does not demand greater democratization and transparency from them, unlike western countries. The United States and European countries often attach these strings to their offers of aid.
The Western countries always have conditions whereby Lao government would probably not be able to fulfil its goal. Independent means Lao people can do what we believe suits for us, no doubt. Yes, admittedly in this century no one country can be independent. Laos would depend on other countries because it cannot do by itself everything, but those countries probably depend on Laos. Laos exports some goods to them.

It is true that Laos depens on others more. However, in my opinion, this time Laos has to choose its supporter (ally) suited its own will where it fells more comfortable, unlike in 19 century where Laos was chosen by ruler colonies, imperialists.

In a few years, the green paddies likely will be turned into a modern city, where Chinese people walk around like they own the place.

True but not only Chinese, all foreigners, Japanese included, can walk around in Laos. That reflects that there is a good security in Laos, unlike in Iraq.

Zak · Senior Member

In a few years, the green paddies likely will be turned into a modern city, where Chinese people walk around like they own the place.

True but not only Chinese, all foreigners, Japanese included, can walk around in Laos. That reflects that there is a good security in Laos, unlike in Iraq.

How can you say that when that 40 year old man was forced out of his home? I think your blind my friend.

The Western countries always have conditions whereby Lao government would probably not be able to fulfil its goal. Independent means Lao people can do what we believe suits for us, no doubt. Yes, admittedly in this century no one country can be independent. Laos would depend on other countries because it cannot do by itself everything, but those countries probably depend on Laos. Laos exports some goods to them.

It is true that Laos depens on others more. However, in my opinion, this time Laos has to choose its supporter (ally) suited its own will where it fells more comfortable, unlike in 19 century where Laos was chosen by ruler colonies, imperialists.

Western countries ask for Human Rights and democratic reforms. I don't see how thats hard, or even impossible, for the government to attempt. Its the same case with the Chinese. Instead of the Chinese asking for Human Rights and democratic reforms, THEY ASKED FOR LAND INSTEAD. Again, you're blind.

-- Edited by Zak at 02:11, 2008-03-31

Date: Mar 31, 2008

Zak wrote:

How can you say that when that 40 year old man was forced out of his home?

Instead of the Chinese asking for Human Rights and democratic reforms, THEY ASKED FOR LAND INSTEAD. Again, you're blind.

-- Edited by Zak at 02:11, 2008-03-31

There is a compensation for people affected. Lao government also will find other place for them.

The land is exchanged with the cost of stadium which currently is being built.

Don't think that Lao government is stupid. Please look at yourself before other people would call you a stupid kid.

Zak · Senior Member

Anonymous wrote:

Zak wrote:

How can you say that when that 40 year old man was forced out of his home?

Instead of the Chinese asking for Human Rights and democratic reforms, THEY ASKED FOR LAND INSTEAD. Again, you're blind.

-- Edited by Zak at 02:11, 2008-03-31
There is a compensation for people affected. Lao government also will find other place for them.

The land is exchanged with the cost of stadium which currently is being built.

Don't think that Lao government is stupid. Please look at yourself before other people would call you a stupid kid.

Let me see, how could a government started by peasants not be... "stupid"?

I don't think I ever said the government was stupid, did I? Well I sort of just did now, didn't I?

If the Lao government did not have enough resources or funding to host the ASEAN games, they shouldn't have even tried to. Instead focus on the country, before you try to show off the the rest of the world.

Why should ever a country come to the point of giving out land to fund such a thing as a stadium? Doesn't that give you some insight of the priorities the Lao government has?

And any single party government will receive ALL negative criticism because its just that, one frickin party to receive it all! You don't think that such a government would not receive criticism?

paris_vientiane · Guru

China is getting more and more economic power... they are becoming the world economic leader.

In our world, economic power means just... UNIVERSAL POWER (politic, military), because everything depend of money and economy.

I think there is nothing wrong with this: 19th century for europe, 20th century for USA, 21st century for China/asia.

I just worry about one thing: chinese are able to do the best.. but also the worse... just depending about the "wind". They can build wonderfull things, propose many quality products for low price, soon i believe they will be able to inovate more than any country in the past.... but they are also able to pollute tremendously ; dominate the market and elinimate their competitors by sellings very low price, but also very low quality product ; they don't care human rights a lot (maybe we could say "at all"), lie to their own people...

I hope that China will quickly forget the worse and keep only the best of what they can do... or the "world domination by China" will be a very hard time for all other countries (and maybe for chinese themselves)

-- Edited by paris_vientiane at 10:28, 2008-03-31

Date: Mar 31, 2008

paris_vientiane wrote:

China is getting more and more economic power... they are becoming the world economic leader.

In our world, economic power means just... UNIVERSAL POWER (politic, military), because everything depend of money and economy.

-- Edited by paris_vientiane at 10:28, 2008-03-31

Yes, you are really right that China is soon becoming the world economic leader. Thanks so much for reminding me. I have something to write.

But having said that, I wonder is there any one party system with economic growth?

On the other hand, I also wonder why does USA economy become worse and worse from day to day, although they claim they are super human right and freedom, closing their eyes on torture done by American troops in Iraq and elsewhere in every corner of the world?

Date: Mar 31, 2008

Anonymous wrote:
This world, no free meal for any body except Lao Government and Lao Buddist temple.

Zak wrote:

How can you say that when that 40 year old man was forced out of his home?

Instead of the Chinese asking for Human Rights and democratic reforms, THEY ASKED FOR LAND INSTEAD. Again, you're blind.

-- Edited by Zak at 02:11, 2008-03-31
There is a compensation for people affected. Lao government also will find other place for them.

The land is exchanged with the cost of stadium which currently is being built.

Don't think that Lao government is stupid. Please look at yourself before other people would call you a stupid kid.

Date: Mar 31, 2008

If you wach documentary or read the news on tree gorge dam see how the chinese compensated theirs own people.!

Lan_Xang · Guru

Anonymous wrote:

If you wach documentary or read the news on tree gorge dam see how the chinese compensated theirs own people.!

I saw that too. Many historical places now under water. China need energy they will get it wherever and anyway they can.

Makes me think.....why do heck they waste their time in Laos. Obviouisly their goal is to make all the Asian countries belong to them or under their control.

Date: Mar 31, 2008

Zak wrote:
Let me see, how could a government started by peasants not be... "stupid"?

And any single party government will receive ALL negative criticism because its just that, one frickin party to receive it all! You don't think that such a government would not receive criticism?

It is not surprised me that this comment from USA, the people of which are the kind of the so called "enemies" of Lao government, even they are Lao race, not to mention Lao Hmong people living in America, they are close to Vang Pao.

Date: Mar 31, 2008

Zak wrote:
Let me see, how could a government started by peasants not be... "stupid"?

Yes, you probably right. But having said that, I must say that the current Lao government is much more and more clever than those who governed Laos before 1975. Before 1975 in Laos there is no even one TV station. Lao people were very very poor.

Now our government people are sons and daughters of Lao farmers. That's why they can work for Lao people. This is a really democracy, no doubt.

Date: Mar 31, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Zak wrote:
Let me see, how could a government started by peasants not be... "stupid"?

Yes, you probably right. But having said that, I must say that the current Lao government is much more and more clever than those who governed Laos before 1975. Before 1975 in Laos there is no even one TV station. Lao people were very very poor.

Now our government people are sons and daughters of Lao farmers. That's why they can work for Lao people. This is a really democracy, no doubt.

that is right, whatever people are saying, Laos is much better than the time in the war. and now Laos keeps getting better and better. If you come to see by yourself, I think in your mind will think the same. So come and see you, instead of guessing

Lan_Xang · Guru

Anonymous wrote:

It is not surprised me that this comment from USA, the people of which are the kind of the so called "enemies" of Lao government, even they are Lao race, not to mention Lao Hmong people living in America, they are close to Vang Pao.

Words from a communist drone.

You see people if you disagree with their policies.......than you are their enemies.
It boggles the mind how they thinks and draw conclusion.

Date: Mar 31, 2008

do you think the people that run the goverment right now are going to be alive in fifty year. If china invest in laos. how they use chinese company and worker to work on the contruction. all the money they put in is still go back to china bank. Laos and the rest of other neiboring country are just a dumping ground for chinese cheap product and they'll just get the natural resource and sell to other country that more profitable. Lao is alway going to be under somebody rule because no education.

Zak · Senior Member

Lan_Xang wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is not surprised me that this comment from USA, the people of which are the kind of the so called "enemies" of Lao government, even they are Lao race, not to mention Lao Hmong people living in America, they are close to Vang Pao.

Words from a communist drone.

You see people if you disagree with their policies.......than you are their enemies.
It boggles the mind how they thinks and draw conclusion.

Yes I don't see how that comment even made sense to what I said. People shouldn't complain about other people criticizing the Lao Government. Theres going to be criticism, its just that the Lao Government will receive 100% of it because there is only one party.

I agree that the government is better now than 30 years ago. Of course it will be better than a coalition government plauged with civil war.

I believe that China's rise is good for Laos, but they way they are doing it is just wrong and sorta stupid. To destroy ancient sites just for a dam, blah. Its like Bueng That Luang.

You can criticize the American government all you want. Its practically the White Conservatives fault that we're in Iraq. Sticking our heads where its not suppose to be. Its stupid. Hunting Osama is all that we should be doing in the Middle East.

laopeoplesarmy · Senior Member

zak wrote:
Let me see, how could a government started by peasants not be... "stupid"?

May I remind you that 80% of the Lao people are peasants. Peasants feed and nourish the entire nation including an ungrateful son of bitches like you. How dare you badmouth the peasant that feed and nourished you. You are worst than a dog, atleast dog doesn't bite the hand that feed.

zak wrote:

I don't think I ever said the government was stupid, did I? Well I sort of just did now, didn't I?

You're talking as if your Albert Einstein. If you're so smart then how come the American are not enlisting you to solve their problem in Iraq and problem with their Economy? It seems like you're too smart for your own goood.

Zak wrote:

If the Lao government did not have enough resources or funding to host the ASEAN games, they shouldn't have even tried to. Instead focus on the country, before you try to show off the the rest of the world.

Genius, the SEA Game is Lao PDR's Goose that will lay golden eggs. The Lao Government is smart enough to realized that. The SEA will give the Lao Ecomony a big boost. It'll will bring in more tourists, strengthening Lao athletes and modernization to the country.

Zak wrote:
Why should ever a country come to the point of giving out land to fund such a thing as a stadium? Doesn't that give you some insight of the priorities the Lao government has?

It's called turning asset into capital. You still think like those old people that stuff their money under the mattress or bury it in the ground.

laopeoplesarmy · Senior Member

Anonymous wrote:

do you think the people that run the goverment right now are going to be alive in fifty year. If china invest in laos. how they use chinese company and worker to work on the contruction.

Please stop showing us your inferior complex and your hatred for the Chinese. Your reasoning is totally out of touch with the current reality. The contruction labor are entirely done by Lao workers, only a few specialize area of the contruction trades are done by Chinese Technicians.

Anonymous wrote:

all the money they put in is still go back to china bank.

Some, will of course go back to the Investors. The bank in the Lao PDR do charges fee for money transfer. So many sector of the Lao economy benefit from all Joint Venture business in Laos.

Anonymous wrote:
Laos and the rest of other neiboring country are just a dumping ground for chinese cheap product and they'll just get the natural resource and sell to other country that more profitable.

They can dump all their cheap product in Laos all they want. Which consumer does not like a bargain? I know my wife does! LOL
You guys are so negative about everything. A cynic could only see the cost of doing thing but not the value of it.

Anonymous,

Lao is alway going to be under somebody rule because no education.

That is so true with certain individual Overseas Lao. They only know hatred and bitterness despite the abundance of wealth, knowledge and opportunity that their host countries provided them.

Lao People's Army

Zak · Senior Member

laopeoplesarmy wrote:

zak wrote:
Let me see, how could a government started by peasants not be... "stupid"?

May I remind you that 80% of the Lao people are peasants. Peasants feed and nourish the entire nation including an ungrateful son of bitches like you. How dare you badmouth the peasant that feed and nourished you. You are worst than a dog, atleast dog doesn't bite the hand that feed.

zak wrote:

I don't think I ever said the government was stupid, did I? Well I sort of just did now, didn't I?

You're talking as if your Albert Einstein. If you're so smart then how come the American are not enlisting you to solve their problem in Iraq and problem with their Economy? It seems like you're too smart for your own goood.

Zak wrote:

If the Lao government did not have enough resources or funding to host the ASEAN games, they shouldn't have even tried to. Instead focus on the country, before you try to show off the the rest of the world.

Genius, the SEA Game is Lao PDR's Goose that will lay golden eggs. The Lao Government is smart enough to realized that. The SEA will give the Lao Ecomony a big boost. It'll will bring in more tourists, strengthening Lao athletes and modernization to the country.

Zak wrote:
Why should ever a country come to the point of giving out land to fund such a thing as a stadium? Doesn't that give you some insight of the priorities the Lao government has?

It's called turning asset into capital. You still think like those old people that stuff their money under the mattress or bury it in the ground.

Super ****in defensive. Looks like someone got butt hurt. Peasants do just that, nourish the country with the food they produce. I don't think they have the right skills to run a country. I don't see why I should be disrepected because I stated the truth. If the peasants could raise their family to send them to get good education and degrees to run the country, I would be fine with that. In fact, thats what I wish to see. But it seems like it isn't happening, because if it was, me and you wouldn't be having this conversation.

Please, if people are willing to call me names why should I reconsider my words towards them and not be a smart ass about it?

I don't think showcasing a stadium built 100% from Chinese help will show the rest of the ASEAN countries to come and give Laos a "big boost". If anything, they'd take notice of how well engineered such structures are from the Chinese.
Assets into capital? 5% of that **** will be owned by the Lao government, the rest by the Chinese company building it. Talk about capital, into who's pockets? Certainly not the Lao people's.

I believe the Lao government is on a good road, but somethings aren't so good. I don't see why I can't criticize it. I don't see why anyone should get butt hurt over it, especially a sour mouth like you.

laopeoplesarmy · Senior Member

Zak wrote:

Super ****in defensive.

Mmmm? Hello? And you are not defensive? What is that you saying? Thank you very much! Finally you know that Lao people are human being with feeling too,you know!

Zak wrote:

Looks like someone got butt hurt. Peasants do just that, nourish the country with the food they produce. I don't think they have the right skills to run a country.

Welcome to 2008, Zak! The era of Zakdina is long gone, ok!

Zak wrote:

I don't see why I should be disrepected because I stated the truth.

You did not show us any respect, why should we respect you? If you showed us some respect this wouldn't have happenned.

Zak wrote:

If the peasants could raise their family to send them to get good education and degrees to run the country, I would be fine with that.

Who are you to determine who should run Laos and what not? Get off your high horse and learn to see thing in logical and coherence term for once.

Zak wrote:

In fact, thats what I wish to see. But it seems like it isn't happening, because if it was, me and you wouldn't be having this conversation.

Everyone have their own wishes and dreams. However not all hope and dreams come true. That is just the reality.

zak wrote:

I don't think showcasing a stadium built 100% from Chinese help will show the rest of the ASEAN countries to come and give Laos a "big boost".

Show me the paper where it said the stadium is built 100% by the Chinese? Stop exaggerating thing without proof.

zak wroe:

If anything, they'd take notice of how well engineered such structures are from the Chinese.
Assets into capital? 5% of that **** will be owned by the Lao government, the rest by the Chinese company building it. Talk about capital, into who's pockets? Certainly not the Lao people's.

Hey, it meet Lao standard and that all it matter. The stadium certainly is not in France or the US.

The capital certainly will fall into all segment of Lao ecomony. The people that build the stadium have to eat too you know? Where do you think they go to eat? This is one of the few example.

Zak wrote:

I believe the Lao government is on a good road, but somethings aren't so good. I don't see why I can't criticize it. I don't see why anyone should get butt hurt over it, especially a sour mouth like you.

I did not say you can't critized the Lao Government. If you want the Lao government to take your criticizism seriously, there are proper channel to it.

Zak · Senior Member

You really failed to address a lot of what I just said. Avoiding it just shows how much you know, or care to know.

I onno show me some Lao engineers with the plans.

You're telling me that its a good idea to allow non-educated, non-degree holding citizens to run a government? I am sure the Ministers, or whatever they have equivalent to a Minister, have some higher education. I do not want this comment to stray any further than what it was intended to mean.

You said differently in another thread about Criticizing the government, but I feel like that other comment was sarcasm. At least, I hope it was.

laopeoplesarmy · Senior Member

Zak wrote:
You're telling me that its a good idea to allow non-educated, non-degree holding citizens to run a government?

I was merely responding your degrading remarks of the Lao peasants. The Lao PDR does not have a caste or social class system.

Zak wrote:
I am sure the Ministers, or whatever they have equivalent to a Minister, have some higher education. I do not want this comment to stray any further than what it was intended to mean.

Lao Government officials have the capacity and intelligence to carry out their daily task.

Zak wrote:
You said differently in another thread about Criticizing the government, but I feel like that other comment was sarcasm. At least, I hope it was.

Zak, there are some obviously rubbish and there some valid comments posted here. I do believes I respond to them accordingly.

Date: Apr 1, 2008

laopeoplesarmy wrote:

Zak wrote:

Super ****in defensive.

Mmmm? Hello? And you are not defensive? What is that you saying? Thank you very much! Finally you know that Lao people are human being with feeling too,you know!

Zak wrote:

Looks like someone got butt hurt. Peasants do just that, nourish the country with the food they produce. I don't think they have the right skills to run a country.

Welcome to 2008, Zak! The era of Zakdina is long gone, ok!

Zak wrote:

I don't see why I should be disrepected because I stated the truth.

You did not show us any respect, why should we respect you? If you showed us some respect this wouldn't have happenned.

Zak wrote:

If the peasants could raise their family to send them to get good education and degrees to run the country, I would be fine with that.

Who are you to determine who should run Laos and what not? Get off your high horse and learn to see thing in logical and coherence term for once.

Zak wrote:

In fact, thats what I wish to see. But it seems like it isn't happening, because if it was, me and you wouldn't be having this conversation.

Everyone have their own wishes and dreams. However not all hope and dreams come true. That is just the reality.

zak wrote:

I don't think showcasing a stadium built 100% from Chinese help will show the rest of the ASEAN countries to come and give Laos a "big boost".

Show me the paper where it said the stadium is built 100% by the Chinese? Stop exaggerating thing without proof.

zak wroe:

If anything, they'd take notice of how well engineered such structures are from the Chinese.
Assets into capital? 5% of that **** will be owned by the Lao government, the rest by the Chinese company building it. Talk about capital, into who's pockets? Certainly not the Lao people's.

Hey, it meet Lao standard and that all it matter. The stadium certainly is not in France or the US.

The capital certainly will fall into all segment of Lao ecomony. The people that build the stadium have to eat too you know? Where do you think they go to eat? This is one of the few example.

Zak wrote:

I believe the Lao government is on a good road, but somethings aren't so good. I don't see why I can't criticize it. I don't see why anyone should get butt hurt over it, especially a sour mouth like you.

I did not say you can't critized the Lao Government. If you want the Lao government to take your criticizism seriously, there are proper channel to it.

Date: Apr 1, 2008

laopeoplesarmy wrote:

I did not say you can't critized the Lao Government. If you want the Lao government to take your criticizism seriously, there are proper channel to it.

Yes you did say we can't criticize the Laos goverment unless we are a citizen of Lao PDR. That what you said in the other comment. And you keep asking if we are Laos citizen.

Date: Apr 1, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

laopeoplesarmy wrote:

I did not say you can't critized the Lao Government. If you want the Lao government to take your criticizism seriously, there are proper channel to it.

Yes you did say we can't criticize the Laos goverment unless we are a citizen of Lao PDR. That what you said in the other comment. And you keep asking if we are Laos citizen.

Yes, that is right. If you are not Lao citizen, but you keep criticizing Lao government, what is the point?

Lao government can work only for Lao people having Lao nationality, no doubt.
Lao government bodies were elected by Lao people, but not by you, foreigners, I believe, you can understand this common sense.

I do understand that you would hard to understand that because your habits or behaviors, the kind of cowboys, if not hyligans, are totally different from other nation. Your government is really keen to support either war or protest.

We all know that war in Iraq and Afghanistan leaded by your leaders, the hyligan demonstration in Geogia, Ukraine, Kykistan, Libanon and recently in Tibet.

I know what you are trying now is to discredit Lao government reputation so that you hope that Lao people would hate Lao government. Your goal is the kind of events like in Tibet.

That you would only dream to get it. Probably, you would need to wait until your next life.

Zak · Senior Member

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

laopeoplesarmy wrote:

I did not say you can't critized the Lao Government. If you want the Lao government to take your criticizism seriously, there are proper channel to it.

Yes you did say we can't criticize the Laos goverment unless we are a citizen of Lao PDR. That what you said in the other comment. And you keep asking if we are Laos citizen.

Yes, that is right. If you are not Lao citizen, but you keep criticizing Lao government, what is the point?

Lao government can work only for Lao people having Lao nationality, no doubt.
Lao government bodies were elected by Lao people, but not by you, foreigners, I believe, you can understand this common sense.

I do understand that you would hard to understand that because your habits or behaviors, the kind of cowboys, if not hyligans, are totally different from other nation. Your government is really keen to support either war or protest.

We all know that war in Iraq and Afghanistan leaded by your leaders, the hyligan demonstration in Geogia, Ukraine, Kykistan, Libanon and recently in Tibet.

I know what you are trying now is to discredit Lao government reputation so that you hope that Lao people would hate Lao government. Your goal is the kind of events like in Tibet.

That you would only dream to get it. Probably, you would need to wait until your next life.

Lao people's army seems like he is very educated, and has his opinions. But I've seen your post and they're very narrow minded. You bring up middle eastern countries as if all posters here are from America. For Laos to fit into the international spectrum, shouldn't it take on international criticism?

And as for Tibet. Do you not believe Tibetans have the right to protest for things that they want? One day maybe a governmental body will run over your rights, the things you wish to have or would like to see and maybe your opinions will change then. and I have a feeling the sentence I just typed will cause you to take it the wrong way.

Are the Lao ministers really elected? Or are they just elected within its own party? Remember a year or two back when Laos fast forwarded the elections one year early to avoid criticism from International bodies for not having democratic reforms? Then again, if I ran a government, I would do the same to avoid such things.

Date: Apr 1, 2008

Anonymous wrote:
Yes you did say we can't criticize the Laos goverment unless we are a citizen of Lao PDR. That what you said in the other comment. And you keep asking if we are Laos citizen.

Yes, that is right. If you are not Lao citizen, but you keep criticizing Lao government, what is the point?

Lao government can work only for Lao people having Lao nationality, no doubt.
Lao government bodies were elected by Lao people, but not by you, foreigners, I believe, you can understand this common sense.

I do understand that you would hard to understand that because your habits or behaviors, the kind of cowboys, if not hyligans, are totally different from other nation. Your government is really keen to support either war or protest.

We all know that war in Iraq and Afghanistan leaded by your leaders, the hyligan demonstration in Geogia, Ukraine, Kykistan, Libanon and recently in Tibet.

I know what you are trying now is to discredit Lao government reputation so that you hope that Lao people would hate Lao government. Your goal is the kind of events like in Tibet.

That you would only dream to get it. Probably, you would need to wait until your next life.

Oh yes, I totally agree with you. Lao government would only can serve Laotian, but not other nation.

I have followed this topic, I found out that some nation really don't know the ethic of comment. No wonder in their countries people are killing each other even in schools. That is because they act like hyligans without considering other people felling.

How dare the guy can call Lao government represented 6 million Lao people stupid?

Probably his parents did not teach him how to behave properly.

Should the foreign kids behave like this, I wonder?

laopeoplesarmy · Senior Member

Anonymous wrote:

Yes you did say we can't criticize the Laos goverment unless we are a citizen of Lao PDR. That what you said in the other comment. And you keep asking if we are Laos citizen.

I did stated that you have to be a Lao citizen to be taken seriously by the Lao Government. If you are a foreigner there proper channel through our embassy according to the international protocol.

Lan_Xang · Guru

laopeoplesarmy wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes you did say we can't criticize the Laos goverment unless we are a citizen of Lao PDR. That what you said in the other comment. And you keep asking if we are Laos citizen.

I did stated that you have to be a Lao citizen to be taken seriously by the Lao Government. If you are a foreigner there proper channel through our embassy according to the international protocol.

But then you and I and Zak and other Anonymous wouldn't be having this cool discussion. biggrin

laopeoplesarmy · Senior Member

Lan_Xang wrote:

But then you and I and Zak and other Anonymous wouldn't be having this cool discussion.

Lanxang, there are so many topic to discuss about but why must we choose a topic that will divided us? This, I find it difficult to comprehend.

chiip · Guru

well, I really don`t know where the end of this discussion, as we enperienced, the lao government has made many many mistakes in its thirty years running rule, beginning with the general cooperatives in the 70-80 and other things that made people poorer, it was a nightmare that I wish I wouldn`t have to experience it, and now it is building another SPHANGLEN children park called national stadium, let the government do it, we, simple people cannot be against it, but please, think who will go to play sport there after the ASIAN GAMES `s over ? I fear it would be another SPHANGLEN children park !

Date: Apr 1, 2008

chiip wrote:

well, I really don`t know where the end of this discussion, as we enperienced, the lao government has made many many mistakes in its thirty years running rule, beginning with the general cooperatives in the 70-80 and other things that made people poorer, it was a nightmare that I wish I wouldn`t have to experience it, and now it is building another SPHANGLEN children park called national stadium, let the government do it, we, simple people cannot be against it, but please, think who will go to play sport there after the ASIAN GAMES `s over ? I fear it would be another SPHANGLEN children park !

The past experience would not happen any more. Laos will move forward but never backward.

Talking about stadium, I am still optimistic about that. Look at the old stadium built 40 years ago, now people still keep going to play.

Lan_Xang · Guru

laopeoplesarmy wrote:

Lan_Xang wrote:

But then you and I and Zak and other Anonymous wouldn't be having this cool discussion.
Lanxang, there are so many topic to discuss about but why must we choose a topic that will divided us? This, I find it difficult to comprehend.

I love Laos. My family still have properties that we rented out there and I have many many uncles, aunts, and counsins. Not to forget nieces and nephews too. I am not.... I repeat......I am not.... against the people of Laos or I look down upon them. They are my relatives and fellow Laotians.

Your difficulty to comprehend my disagreement with certain policies implemented by LPRP is bothering me too.

I am not trying to divide us. I merely voicing my disagreement just as Vietiane_Paris did on the topic of Tuk Tuk / Jumbo.

My questions to you is...Do you hate Lao Expatriates and their decendants? Do you see us as pariah and a remind you of and old regime which some supporters of LPRP hated so much ?

laopeoplesarmy · Senior Member

Lan_Xang wrote:

Your difficulty to comprehend my disagreement with certain policies
implemented by LPRP is bothering me too.

It's no that I don't understand you, it's the method and logic behind your argument that is obviously lacking in common sense. I expect more from someone that claimed he is an engineer and living in the West. Someone that obviously think he is superior than the rest of the Lao Population and their Government. Again, my assumption of you are based solely on your own statement made in here.

Lanxang wrote:

I am not trying to divide us. I merely voicing my disagreement just as Vietiane_Paris did on the topic of Tuk Tuk / Jumbo.

Well, it's good to know that. I was merely responding to your comment or remarks that I found offensive to the Lao People collectively. Please note that I did not initiate any debate. I was merely responding to remarks made by members of this forum that are obviously offensive to the Lao people.

Lanxang wrote:
My questions to you is...Do you hate Lao Expatriates and their decendants? Do you see us as pariah and a remind you of and old regime which some supporters of LPRP hated so much ?

Lanxang I may born and raised in a Socialist State by my family has aways been a devote Lao Buddhist. My Father and his Father before him may fought for the revolutionary side but do so for the purpose of uniting the entire country and nation. Hatred and bigotry certainly does not run in my vein.

Zak · Senior Member

The fact that we are born and raised in different types of government, and as well as cultures, is what is dividing us. Of course if we were all born under the LPRP or the Royalists we'd be agreeing a lot more.

Our views will be biased because of what we were taught and learned. I think that Western views are "in your face" because we've been told so many times how Free the west is. Even though we are allowed to view many amounts of history that will be covered up by authoritarian governments, like Tiananmen square, we related that (psychologists call that "assimilate") to conditions within our own country and look at others as "wrong".

Thats why possibly we cannot understand an outsider's thought of mind. We can never understand another person's view fully.

Lan_Xang · Guru

laopeoplesarmy wrote:

It's no that I don't understand you, it's the method and logic behind your argument that is obviously lacking in common sense. I expect more from someone that claimed he is an engineer and living in the West. Someone that obviously think he is superior than the rest of the Lao Population and their Government. Again, my assumption of you are based solely on your own statement made in here.

First, I never claim that I am superior to Laos population or Lao Goverment. (I just have different point of views). Your notion of Lao people educated here in the West claiming superiority needs to be wiped out. It seems to me that you got something against us...just because we live in the West.

Show me a post that I claim to be superior than other Lao then I will apologize.

I am not claiming but stating the fact. Yes, I am a network engineer living is USA. I am a Theravada Buddhist just like you. I can read write and speak Lao as well. Although I never went to a Lao school. Only school I ever went to was a French school in Vientiane.

Ever heard the term "Devil's advocate"? (that is me) You are what they call "God's advocate". Putting religion to side, it is merely an expression of looking at things from others point of view.

Let us be honest here, me, like everybody here (maybe not you), just here to discuss topic. You talk of logic and common sense,,,,, do you seriously really think Laos Government going to look at my proposal if I send it. Common sense tells me some how I don't think they going to read it. Logic tells me to really change things, I would have to immigrate to Laos with hope they change the constitution to allow me to run for a seat in the congress (or whatever they call it there). But my chance of that is zero. Anyway, I read somewhere that you need to be chose by the party to run for the seat in the goverment.

My purpose here is to discuss topic with people like me and you. Maybe you see expressing one disagreement openly here in this forum or present an issue with alternative solutions might be a waste of time to you but that is what we all do here. We share our agreement and disagreement.

laopeoplesarmy · Senior Member

Lan_Xang wrote:
First, I never claim that I am superior to Laos population or Lao Goverment. (I just have different point of views). Your notion of Lao people educated here in the West claiming superiority needs to be wiped out.

You may not personally admit it but your statement suggested otherwise! Look at the statement below that you made recently.

Lanxang wrote 11 days ago on the thread,"Different kind of Buddhist."

"It seems to me you people in Laos does not know anything about your own religion. Maybe some Lao people in America can teach you Lao something."

Anyone with enough common sense and intelligence would noticed exactly what are you trying implied. That's a generalization of the entire Lao population.

Lanxang wrote:

It seems to me that you got something against us...just because we live in the West.

I have nothing against you people. The War is over long time ago and I have nothing to do with it and so do most of you. I do not have time to tread into the past. The present is already enough of a problem for me.

Lanxang wrote:

Show me a post that I claim to be superior than other Lao then I will apologize.

See above.

Lanxang wrote:

I am not claiming but stating the fact. Yes, I am a network engineer living is USA. I am a Theravada Buddhist just like you. I can read write and speak Lao as well.

Very good well! Congratulation on your academic achievement! This is a sincere wishes and congrat from a fellow Engineer and a Lao.

Lanxang wrote:

Although I never went to a Lao school. Only school I ever went to was a French school in Vientiane.

LOL Now I see where you get that arrogance demeanour from!

Lanxang wrote:
Let us be honest here, me, like everybody here (maybe not you), just here to discuss topic. You talk of logic and common sense,,,,, do you seriously really think Laos Government going to look at my proposal if I send it.

How would you know what the outcome is? You haven't even sent one proposal, yet!

Look at Albert Einstein, he never once asked the Jewish State for anything and yet the Israeli Government offered to make him a President of Israel.

If you have something good going, people will come to you! Every sane person know what a good deed is. You don't have to advertise!

Lanxang wrote:

Common sense tells me some how I don't think they going to read it.

LOL
You've already quit before you even start it! We called that self prophecy.

Lanxang wrote:

Logic tells me to really change things, I would have to immigrate to Laos with hope they change the constitution to allow me to run for a seat in the congress (or whatever they call it there).

That kind of thinking it is so outdated. The Globalization and the IT revolution has made the world a smaller places. You don't have to be in Laos physcally to make an impact and make a contribution to Laos advancement. What you are saying it's a dying wishes of those former officials of the old Lao regime.

Lanxang wrote:

But my chance of that is zero. Anyway, I read somewhere that you need to be chose by the party to run for the seat in the goverment.
My purpose here is to discuss topic with people like me and you. Maybe you see expressing one disagreement openly here in this forum or present an issue with alternative solutions might be a waste of time to you but that is what we all do here. We share our agreement and disagreement.

My sincere advice to you is to give up that childish fantasy of going back to topple the Lao Government. You are too educated and intelligence to have this kind of illusion. The world is changing and so is Laos. Best way to help Laos is to help yourself and made yourself visible in a positive way like Albert Einstein.

Lan_Xang · Guru

laopeoplesarmy wrote:

Lanxang wrote 11 days ago on the thread,"Different kind of Buddhist."

"It seems to me you people in Laos does not know anything about your own religion. Maybe some Lao people in America can teach you Lao something."

Anyone with enough common sense and intelligence would noticed exactly what are you trying implied. That's a generalization of the entire Lao population.
>>> No, I was simply replying to the Lao that live in >>>Laos that participate in this discussion on the >>>specific topic and it was not to the entire population of Laos.

Lanxang wrote:

Show me a post that I claim to be superior than other Lao then I will apologize.

See above.
You may not personally admit it but your statement suggested otherwise! Look at the statement below that you made recently.

>>>> See my reply above

Lanxang wrote:
Let us be honest here, me, like everybody here (maybe not you), just here to discuss topic. You talk of logic and common sense,,,,, do you seriously really think Laos Government going to look at my proposal if I send it.

How would you know what the outcome is? You haven't even sent one proposal, yet!

>>> Do you know of anyone that send a proposal? >>> Can you send me a template, a guidelines, or
>>> requirement?

Lanxang wrote:

Logic tells me to really change things, I would have to immigrate to Laos with hope they change the constitution to allow me to run for a seat in the congress (or whatever they call it there).

That kind of thinking it is so outdated. The Globalization and the IT revolution has made the world a smaller places. You don't have to be in Laos physcally to make an impact and make a contribution to Laos advancement. What you are saying it's a dying wishes of those former officials of the old Lao regime.

>>> No, that is a WHAT IF scenario.

Lanxang wrote:

But my chance of that is zero. Anyway, I read somewhere that you need to be chose by the party to run for the seat in the goverment.
My purpose here is to discuss topic with people like me and you. Maybe you see expressing one disagreement openly here in this forum or present an issue with alternative solutions might be a waste of time to you but that is what we all do here. We share our agreement and disagreement.

My sincere advice to you is to give up that childish fantasy of going back to topple the Lao Government. You are too educated and intelligence to have this kind of illusion. The world is changing and so is Laos. Best way to help Laos is to help yourself and made yourself visible in a positive way like Albert Einstein.

>>> Like I've said here and in other posts, I don't >>>support any plan to topple current Laos >>>government. That is force change which would not >>>be good for the stability of Laos. However, I am in >>>favor that it open up the government so it won't >>>just be a one party state.

>>> Can you just tell me what you want from me (other then you want me to send a proposal to Lao goverment) so we can address it. I feel this back and worth messages is not going anywhere.

laopeoplesarmy · Senior Member

Lan_Xang wrote:
>>> Can you just tell me what you want from me (other then you want me to send a proposal to Lao goverment) so we can address it. I feel this back and worth messages is not going anywhere.

Lanxang, I'm not in any position to demand anything from a Foreigner like you. However, I'd like Laos and its Lao people to be treated equally as any other nation on this planet.

Zak · Senior Member

laopeoplesarmy

How kindly do you think the Lao government takes to Lao abroad? Foreign born or emigrants.

Japan has close ties to foreign born Japanese or Japanese living abroad, even allowing Japanese-Brazilians to come to Japan and work (but yet they still faced racism, isn't that so ironic?) Although maybe the Lao government would not have that type of relationship with the Lao diaspora, maybe a relationship in general could be formed? Probably not now but years after the generation of grandparents die, since they are the ones that hold the grudges.

Do you yourself not sometimes think the Lao government is not doing some things wrong? Surely any citizen of any government would find at least one thing bugging them about his/her's government. I mean the way you talk makes you seem like a brochure for the government! its just sorta creepy. You do have the right to defend them though.

ALSO do you have ANY information at all on the stock market thats suppose to be set up in 2015 in Laos? I've only read 2 or 3 articles about it months ago and nothing else.

Lan_Xang · Guru

laopeoplesarmy wrote:

Lanxang, I'm not in any position to demand anything from a Foreigner like you. However, I'd like Laos and its Lao people to be treated equally as any other nation on this planet.

You got no problem here. People are all the same to me no matter what racial background they came from. There is goodness and evil in all of us. And I also believe given the access to same resources everyone can excel equally if they choose to.

I have to say this is the first time I know of that a Lao person calling another Lao person a foreigner. biggrin

laopeoplesarmy · Senior Member

Lan_Xang wrote:

I have to say this is the first time I know of that a Lao person calling another Lao person a foreigner.

My apology if you still are a Lao citizen. I was merely making an assumption on the merit of your own admission that you currently residing in a Foreign country. As a Lao citizen I'm subjected to international protocol. Anyone who show up in Laos with a passport other than Lao passport, we are obligated by International treaty to treat that person as such.

laopeoplesarmy · Senior Member

Zak wrote:

laopeoplesarmy

How kindly do you think the Lao government takes to Lao abroad? Foreign born or emigrants.

Zak, the Lao Government are no differences than any other Government in the World. We are all bounded by International Treaty. Anyone show up in Laos with passport other than Lao passport will be considered as Foreigner and will be treated accordlingly.

Zak wrote:

Japan has close ties to foreign born Japanese or Japanese living abroad, even allowing Japanese-Brazilians to come to Japan and work (but yet they still faced racism, isn't that so ironic?)

Yeah, I remember reading that on a news article awhile back. Japan is very discriminatory towards non-Japanese. I heard it is very difficult to find work if you're not fluent in Japanese or know Japanese culture well enough.

Zak wrote:

Although maybe the Lao government would not have that type of relationship with the Lao diaspora, maybe a relationship in general could be formed? Probably not now but years after the generation of grandparents die, since they are the ones that hold the grudges.

According to Lao Law of Nationality, anyone who still have a living parents in the Lao PDR are considered as a Lao citizen, regardless. My French half-brother recently went to the Lao Embassy in Paris to get his Lao Passport and consulate registration just so he can traveled to Laos and other ASEAN Countries without paying visa fee.

Zak wrote:

Do you yourself not sometimes think the Lao government is not doing some things wrong? Surely any citizen of any government would find at least one thing bugging them about his/her's government. I mean the way you talk makes you seem like a brochure for the government! its just sorta creepy. You do have the right to defend them though.

Not all Lao citizen agreed with the Lao Government on everything. However, our approach to things are different from the path that you Foreigner familiar with.

Zak wrote:

ALSO do you have ANY information at all on the stock market thats suppose to be set up in 2015 in Laos? I've only read 2 or 3 articles about it months ago and nothing else.

I afraid not. Im not very up to date with the business development in the Lao PDR. I'm a Hydro Engineer by training. However, I know quite a bit about the Hydro-Electricity Dam development in Laos.

Lan_Xang · Guru

laopeoplesarmy wrote:

Not all Lao citizen agreed with the Lao Government on everything. However, our approach to things are different from the path that you Foreigner familiar with.

You don't talk among each other about topics? So true. My relatives told me not to talk about Lao government with them when I was visiting.

I am guessing everyone just send in a proposal or disagreement to the government.

laopeoplesarmy · Senior Member

Lan_Xang wrote:
You don't talk among each other about topics? So true. My relatives told me not to talk about Lao government with them when I was visiting.
I am guessing everyone just send in a proposal or disagreement to the government.

Lanxang, we have a town meeting. Any disagreement can be raised during the meeting. Lao culture and Lao way of approaching things are different from that of people in the West. That is what so unique about us. You wouldn't understand how a Lao would do things since you were never attended Lao School or associated with Lao people in general, basing on your own admission.

Lan_Xang · Guru

laopeoplesarmy wrote:

Lanxang, we have a town meeting. Any disagreement can be raised during the meeting. Lao culture and Lao way of approaching things are different from that of people in the West. That is what so unique about us. You wouldn't understand how a Lao would do things since you were never attended Lao School or associated with Lao people in general, basing on your own admission.

It is not unique about it at all.
We foreigners in the West have a similar process as well.
It is not that I don't understand....just didn't know your process.

What I am asking you is.........that you don't talk about politic and current events in the news with friends?

-- Edited by Lan_Xang at 02:42, 2008-04-04

laopeoplesarmy · Senior Member

Lan_Xang wrote:

What I am asking you is.........that you don't talk about politic and current events in the news with friends?
Lao people are no differences than any other human being in this planet. We do talk about variety of topic in a social setting, including politic. However, we do have a realistic expectional and approach to things.

Lan_Xang · Guru

laopeoplesarmy wrote:

Lan_Xang wrote:

What I am asking you is.........that you don't talk about politic and current events in the news with friends?
Lao people are no differences than any other human being in this planet. We do talk about variety of topic in a social setting, including politic. However, we do have a realistic expectional and approach to things.

So what is the different between us (Samakomlao members) and what you just described above?

Do you tell your friends and others aquantances that you don't wish to hear abou it and that they should just submit their complaints or proposals to the government?

laopeoplesarmy · Senior Member

Lan_Xang wrote:

So what is the different between us (Samakomlao members) and what you just described above?
Do you tell your friends and others aquantances that you don't wish to hear abou it and that they should just submit their complaints or proposals to the government?

Lanxang, I cannot believe that an Network Engineer like you cannot tell the different between a private conversation and a public discussion. Samakhomlao is a public forum. Is this the kind of quality of Engineer that the American Affirmative Action are producing? I find your question rather illogical and silly to a point.

Do you normally criticizes your employer or community on a public forum? I mean how do you bring about changes in your immediate surrounding?

Date: Apr 5, 2008

I have read many opinions and many discussions here, I don't want to write too long and say too much about both sides of your arguments here, all I want to say for short and meaning is that for better or worst " I LOVE MY MOTHER-LAND ". I' ve never seen my country grown in building, infrastruction and the highest growth rate in ASIAN according to the " Source: Philippine Daily Inquirer by Michelle V. Remo, April 3, 2008 ", since I was small kid before I left. I don't want to say the word " PROUD " of you Lao Government yet but all I can say KEEP UP the good work and you are moving in proper and not perfect direction yet. We are far behind the rest of our neighbours.

For those who criticize and call Lao PDR as a communist country; take a look at Communist Soviet Union is no longer exist. Lao PDR have no word of communist in it.
For someone who educated in the West, he/she says is my Freedom of speech think again some phone line being tapped by government now and even building the Wall now. Tell other tear down the (Berlin) wall..Huh. Tell other respect Human Right..Huh. Sometime they are confusing of calling the CHINA : The CAPITAL Communist China or The Socialist Communist China..Umm. Trillion dollors had gone without any profit, economy in a blink of Recession and corruptions rose !!! They are fear no one but they are fear in themself.

According to psychological theory : when someone lied, he/she have tendency to lie again; when someone ****, he/she will **** again.

Let take a look at EUROPE now , they are growing and more Eastern want to join them.

Whatever serve the our country well do it but be smart, keep your head up and learn from them and don't let them fool us. Teach our children well and remind them they must be a FIRST CLASS to none!! Do whater necessaryto improve our motherland !!

LET MOVE ON..LET UNITE, DIVIDED WE FAIL, let engage in proper, formal and educational ways of discussions. Do not hostile and use the inflammable languages toward each others!! Use a common sense and respect each other as community as a whole.

In the future, If I'm still around I want to see ASIAN be as an Unite Asian ( E. A.) and the same currency as E. U. <= correct me if I'm wrong !

I would say the BIGER the BETTER ! !

Reguard;

RESPECT AND VERIFY ! !