Anonymous wrote:

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Chounmaly's wife is usually all over Vientiane yapping at everyone.  Now she rarely leaves her house.  Hahahaha

 

Laos is truly changing.

 

There's even been many 3 headed elephant flags put up all over Laos.  Of course they were taken down by the Lao officials.  Doesn't matter.  It's a sign Laos is changing from within.

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It's true.  Even 3 headed elephant stickers around Vientiane other parts of Laos.  All put up by local Lao.

Anonymous wrote:

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Something both men have in common is the majority of their grandchildren live in the US.

 

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Not just them.  From what i can tell the US is the number one college destination for rich Lao youth in general.  Any scholarships granted to Laos goes to rich Lao families first even though they can easily pay for the tuition themselves.

Whoever would use the three headed elephant flag is obviously not educated to begin with. (ie the many lao nork wannabe thugs who tattoo their bodies with it in amerikkka)

See in Thailand they have a whole museum dedicated to Indian culture. How is that more Lao than the current flag developed by Lao ?

First of all that is Indian culture to begin with. And second of all, that flag was created during French Rule in Laos. The real original one has a French flag in it .  Its the equivalent of sticking a vietnamese flag in the corner of the current Lao PDR flag.  ( which I am sure you Lao norks would love to see so you could continually complain see see the Vietnamese run Laos!)

There goes that Pathet Lao fan boy again who knows nothing about what's happening in Laos in 2014.  Still having dreams he's in 1960 in some cave in Sum Nua.  See how nothing he talks about has to do with anything relating to Laos in 2014.

Anonymous wrote:

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It's not even Khamtai vs Chounmaly anymore.  Those crews have splintered off into more crews.  Add on the distrust the Vietnamese has towards the Lao PDR leaders.  The Chinese are also being very firm with the Lao PDR as it has told the Lao leaders that NOTHING IS FREE and to end their overly tight relationship with Vietnam. 

What happened to Douangchay and company really opened many eyes in Laos.  A lot of Lao were too hard headed or dreaming to realize the truth. 

Mr "I want to play golf" Somsavat, "I have a belly ache" Chounmaly", or Miss "I'll go ahead" Pany knew exactly what the Viets were up to.

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I guess playing golf is more important than celebrating one of the Lao PDR's most important holidays(sarscasm).

Still crying about the French?  The French era was just a part of history.  No one looks fondly on that time.  Either the french or your ass would be a Thai citizen right now.  The decision did not involve any Lao as there was no more Lanxang.

Just like the Lao PDR era will soon pass.

I wonder how Chounmaly feels about all those 3 headed elephant stickers.  He might be too worried about the Vietnamese on his ass to even notice. 

Anonymous wrote:

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Those stickers/flyers are really annoying  them.  They can't stand the truth.  They can't call anyone a Patikarn anymore because it's their fellow Lao PDR brethren putting up the stickers and passing out the flyers.

 

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 lol your imperialist friends are happy you want LAos to become a slave state to Euro white people once again.

No dummy.  If you got out of your room you would know what flags are being put up all over Laos.

Lao people don't want Laos to be under anyone.

Unlike yourself that wish it were fully under China.

Get out of your room for once and get your head out of your ass.

Anonymous wrote:

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No dummy.  If you got out of your room you would know what flags are being put up all over Laos.

 

Lao people don't want Laos to be under anyone.

 

Unlike yourself that wish it were fully under China.

 

Get out of your room for once and get your head out of your ass.

 

 

 

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 OK so please tell me why not 1 Lao leader said anything when 60% of Laos was being bombed by America? Where was the king and his brave self? But now you accuse Lao PDR leaders to be subservient to Vietnamese?  Whats the damn difference? You  lao nork are extremely biased when it comes to history and politics.

Norodom Sihanouk fought against America and their bullying, thats why he was ousted in a coup. The Lao king did nothing and sat back while Laos was being bombed. Who is the coward and who actually cared for the people?

The sad truth is that Laos can never be a true world power player. As much as you and I would like to see an independent Laos, global politics will always try to destroy Laos. The one thing I don't want to be is a puppet to America. That is the difference between you and I. You want Laos to be a puppet to America and put up with their imperialism. So you take away Vietnam then who comes in to fill the space? Thailand and USA? If that happens Lao will become even more militarized and your falang friends will set up military bases here. Think about it. America wants allies to fight the next enemy, which is China. If America gains control of Laos they will install a totalitarian  gov that will kiss their ass all day.

That's where you and I disagree. I don't think its fair to destroy one nation(Laos) to save another one(South Vietnam). You all cling to that notion the bombing of Laos was somehow justified because the Vietnamese were using parts of Laos.  How does that make sense to you ? 

We all know America didn't really care that much about Laos. It was a second or third option on the war rewards list if they won. America pictured Laos and Cambodia as basically a big gate to protecting their main mistress Siam. They ignored that fact that actual people live in these border nations and proceeded to bomb away. One king spoke against it, one king didn't. We know what happened to the one who spoke against it.

The CIA promised Vang Pao the Northern half of Laos if you didn't know that already. So already if somehow America won the war Laos would be split.  With America in charge, Laos was no paradise either as I have posted with evidence before.

Many years later a former US government official in Laos, Jerome Doolittle wrote in the NY Times that “when I first arrived in Laos, I was instructed to answer all press questions about our massive and merciless bombing campaign in that tiny country with: At the request of the Royal Laotian Government, the United States is conducting unarmed reconnaissance flights accompanied by armed escorts who have the right to return if fired upon.”

Unbeknownst to anyone outside his inner circle, however, Nixon had no such intention. “For once,” he tells Henry Kissinger in a tape-recorded White House meeting soon after the election, “we’ve got to use the maximum power of this country, against this ****-ass little country, to win the war.” Later, Nixon is caught on tape arguing with Kissinger over the merits of a merciless bombing campaign. The only difference between me and you, Nixon tells Kissinger, is that you’re concerned about civilians. “I don’t care [about civilians].”

 You are all brainwashed America saved you, but really if you haven't found out already the elite of America profits from wars (Iraq War) and the military industrial complex.

Anonymous wrote:

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Ask yourself who was using Laos to get to the South of their country.  The same people that wanted to control all of Southeast Asia(Thailand and Myanmar included).  Thailand had a hard time with Vietnamese in the late 70's-80's.  If Vietnam didn't run out of funds best believe they would have tried their best to take Thailand.  Even Bhumibol Adulyadej was ready to leave Thailand in case of the Vietnamese taking Bangkok.  The Vietnamese didn't get their dream and they had to be content with riding the donkeys back instead of owning it outright.

I don't see no one posting that people within the RLG was without fault. 

You seem to have to little faith in Lao people.  Lao people are just as capable as anyone else given a healthy environment and opportunity.  Laos could have done better than Singapore with such a small population and abundance in natural wealth.  But the Vietnamese you say don't exist because you're couped up in your room and don't get out, never wanted that to happen.

You need to stop putting words in other's mouths.  "Most" Lao people don't want to be anyone's puppet.  I say most because you want to be a Chinese doormat.  You must not get around a lot of Chinese because they're notorious for being racist against other Asians, especially Southeast Asians.  Asians are racist towards other Asians.  Just the way it has been since ancient times. I'm not talking about the Chinese in Vientiane that are cordial to Lao out of necessity.

You seem to not like anyone.  You're a true loner in your views among Lao people. 

Even among REAL Lao Party members you're a loner.  They want to be more westernized than Lao that actually live in the west. 

You can cry a river all day but doesn't stop the Lao PDR from bickering amongst themselves and with Vietnam like never before. 

You should go like Chounmaly's wounds.  The stitch scars are still fresh.

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Lao PDR history books don't mention the Ho Chi Minh Trail at all.

The only thing it says is there would be no Laos without Vietnam.  Which is laughable and even sad because Laos would be 1000x better without the Viets keeping her down.

Douangchay became a Patikarn he was killed.

He went from hunting Patikarn for the Vietnamese to becoming one out of necessity.  The Vietnamese grim reaper was knocking on his door.  Last year he changed up his whole lifestyle because he was scared as **** of the Vietnamese who he was loyal to for so many years.

The people they run Laos and their families are too busy enjoying their luxurious lives that they forgott that normal everyday Lao people have hearts/feelings/families to take care of/lives as well.  I thought Laos would change maybe 6-7 years down the line.  But with all that's been going on in Laos in just the past year alone it feels like the late 90's again when the Lao PDR/Vietnam was uneasy about Laos become a sovereign nation.  But now you have Party members/normal everyday Lao people working together to change Laos from it's foundation. 

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Ask yourself who was using Laos to get to the South of their country.  The same people that wanted to control all of Southeast Asia(Thailand and Myanmar included).  Thailand had a hard time with Vietnamese in the late 70's-80's.  If Vietnam didn't run out of funds best believe they would have tried their best to take Thailand.  Even Bhumibol Adulyadej was ready to leave Thailand in case of the Vietnamese taking Bangkok.  The Vietnamese didn't get their dream and they had to be content with riding the donkeys back instead of owning it outright.

I don't see no one posting that people within the RLG was without fault. 

You seem to have to little faith in Lao people.  Lao people are just as capable as anyone else given a healthy environment and opportunity.  Laos could have done better than Singapore with such a small population and abundance in natural wealth.  But the Vietnamese you say don't exist because you're couped up in your room and don't get out, never wanted that to happen.

You need to stop putting words in other's mouths.  "Most" Lao people don't want to be anyone's puppet.  I say most because you want to be a Chinese doormat.  You must not get around a lot of Chinese because they're notorious for being racist against other Asians, especially Southeast Asians.  Asians are racist towards other Asians.  Just the way it has been since ancient times. I'm not talking about the Chinese in Vientiane that are cordial to Lao out of necessity.

You seem to not like anyone.  You're a true loner in your views among Lao people. 

Even among REAL Lao Party members you're a loner.  They want to be more westernized than Lao that actually live in the west. 

You can cry a river all day but doesn't stop the Lao PDR from bickering amongst themselves and with Vietnam like never before. 

You should go like Chounmaly's wounds.  The stitch scars are still fresh.

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Lao PDR history books don't mention the Ho Chi Minh Trail at all.

 

The only thing it says is there would be no Laos without Vietnam.  Which is laughable and even sad because Laos would be 1000x better without the Viets keeping her down.

 

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 Lol you guys are way delirious.   There is no way you can bomb a country in the way the USA bombed Laos and call it saving Laos.  Only delirious Patriotic Punch drinking Lao norks believe this ideology. Worldwide condemnation came and continues to be against the maniacal bombing of Laos by Amerikkka.

But anyway I know you guys can't take off Uncle Sam's blinders. My data and arguments can simply not be beaten by your lack of evidence and your kowtowing to America.

1. The Vietnam War was always instigated by America.

A.  America disallowed (by saying nothing when South Vietnam cancelled)  National Elections in Vietnam. ( Ho Chi Minh was projected to win ) 1954

B. America made up the Gulf of Tonkin incident ( multiple historians have agreed to this fact)  The start of the Vietnam War. 1964

2. War was between North Vietnam and South Vietnam/USA. Laos was not included.

A.  America had been secretly running Laos  through the PEO Programs Evaluation Office 1955

B. America was paying the Lao Royal Army salary through American tax payer money, and training an illegal opium based army with Vang Pao as the leader. mid 1950s

C. The CIA had thrown many leftist and Pathet Lao leaders out of power during times of peace in Laos. ( These leaders were elected freely btw) 1950s and early 1960s

3. Why bombing Laos was illegal

A. Laos was not directly involved in the war. America knew this and had to lie about its involvement about Laos. Why was America such a coward to not admit its illegal activities? They were and are the leaders of democracy in the world aren't they? 

B. Multiple American presidents lied about involving Laos in the war, sane American people and people worldwide condemned the murderous destruction of Laos.

C. America should have been brave enough to use their own White man troops in Laos to fight the users of the Ho Chi Minh trail instead of killing and ruining civilian life.

4. Lao norks and America exaggerate the Ho Chi Minh Trail. 

A. As if the Vietnamese used the whole of Laos as a large highway is laughable

B. Bombing didn't have to happen if America had balls to say they were stationing troops in Laos to fight the Vietnamese using Laos as a highway.  But the great beacon of democracy didn't want to look bad to the world acting as a global policeman and colonizer. Plus it would hurt President Johnson and Nixon's images  Corrupt politics 101. Not that Nixon needed any help because he ruined his own presidency after Watergate.

5. America or the Lao Royal Family never cared about Lao or its people.

A. President Kennedy couldn't even pronounce Laos correctly, yet alone care about it's inhabitants. ( Kennedy was later killed for his objection to the Vietnam War and removal of troops)

B. Johnson and Nixon lied about Laos constantly.

C.  None of the Royal Family members said anything about bombing Laos to sh1t. Compare to King Sihanouk of Cambodia directly challenging America ( and getting replaced in a coup)

Most Lao refugees left after 75 you fool. 

The refugees from Northeast Laos prior were coming down to Vientiane because of the Vietnamese taking those towns.  No one wanted to live under there asses and feed them.  If the Pathet Lao/Vietnamese took your town you had to feed them and that was a burden to most Lao families. 

Most of the fighting was RLG vs Vietnamese.  You could find many reports on that.  But the Lao PDR would never admit that because it doesn't go with the BS they teach of how brave the Pathet Lao were when they didn't really do anything.  Hand to hand, man to man it was mostly RLG vs Vietnamese.

There was no refugees flowing into Thailand prior to 1975.  Everyone was getting shot at by the Vietnamese as they were crossing.  Tens of thousands of those refugees still live in Thailand today, living like everyday locals.

You cry so much about the past when the Lao PDR itself hardly cares.  They care about money.  Guess which country they came begging for grants/loans from this year?  You guessed it! 

Nothing you talk about has to do with anything present in Laos.  It's almost as if you don't get out much.

Did you cry for Chounmaly during his "hard times"?  Did you pray to your Mao statute for him while he was in the hospital?

Anonymous wrote:

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Most Lao refugees left after 75 you fool. 

The refugees from Northeast Laos prior were coming down to Vientiane because of the Vietnamese taking those towns.  No one wanted to live under there asses and feed them.  If the Pathet Lao/Vietnamese took your town you had to feed them and that was a burden to most Lao families. 

Most of the fighting was RLG vs Vietnamese.  You could find many reports on that.  But the Lao PDR would never admit that because it doesn't go with the BS they teach of how brave the Pathet Lao were when they didn't really do anything.  Hand to hand, man to man it was mostly RLG vs Vietnamese.

There was no refugees flowing into Thailand prior to 1975.  Everyone was getting shot at by the Vietnamese as they were crossing.  Tens of thousands of those refugees still live in Thailand today, living like everyday locals.

You cry so much about the past when the Lao PDR itself hardly cares.  They care about money.  Guess which country they came begging for grants/loans from this year?  You guessed it! 

Nothing you talk about has to do with anything present in Laos.  It's almost as if you don't get out much.

Did you cry for Chounmaly during his "hard times"?  Did you pray to your Mao statute for him while he was in the hospital?

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 The Royal Lao Army was at its biggest 35,000 to 45,000 soldiers. "About 35,000 Hmong were recruited for the war effort".  So really half were American(CIA Hmong)  and half were Royal Lao Army.

http://www.salon.com/2012/06/17/when_chomsky_wept/

I have a number of particularly vivid memories of Noam from our week together. One was watching him read a newspaper. He would gaze at a page, seem to memorize it, and then a second later turn it and gaze at the next page. On one occasion I gave him a 500-page book to read on the war in Laos at about 10 at night, and met him the next morning at breakfast prior to our visit to political officer Jim Murphy at the U.S. Embassy.

During the interview the issue of the number of North Vietnamese troops in Laos came up. The Embassy claimed that 50,000 had invaded Laos, when the evidence clearly showed there were no more than a few thousand. I almost fell off my chair when Noam quoted a footnote making that point, several hundred pages in, from the book I had given him the night before. I had heard the term “photographic memory” before. But I had never seen it so much in action, or put to such good use. (Interestingly enough, Jim showed Noam internal Embassy documents also confirming the lower number, which Noam later cited in his long chapter on Laos in “At War With Asia.”) 

The US embassy constantly lied about the number of North Vietnamese in Laos. Proven by workers at the US embassy, if you do not believe.

Our friendship was forged over concern for some of these “unpeople” when he visited Laos in February 1970. I had been living in a Lao village outside the capital city of Vientiane for three years at that point and spoke Laotian. But five months earlier I had been shocked to my core when I interviewed the first Lao refugees brought down to Vientiane from the Plain of Jars in northern Laos, which had been controlled by the communist Pathet Lao since 1964. I had discovered to my horror that U.S. executive branch leaders had been clandestinely bombing these peaceful villagers for five-and-a-half years, driving tens of thousands underground and into caves, where they had been forced to live like animals.

I had learned of countless grandmothers burned alive by napalm, countless children buried alive by 500-pound bombs, parents shredded by anti-personnel bombs. I had felt pellets from these bombs still in the bodies of the refugees lucky enough to escape, interviewed people blinded by the bombing, seen napalm wounds on the bodies of infants. I had also learned that the U.S. bombing of the Plain of Jars had turned a 700-year-old civilization of some 200,000 people into a wasteland, and that its main victims were the old people, parents and children who had to remain near the villages — not the communist soldiers who could move through the heavily carpeted forests, largely undetectable from the air. And I had soon also discovered that U.S. Eexecutive branch leaders had conducted this bombing unilaterally, without even informing, let alone obtaining the consent of, Congress or the American people. And I realized that these devastated Plain of Jars refugees were the lucky ones. They had survived. U.S. bombing of hundreds of thousands of other innocent Lao was not only continuing but escalating.

His foremost contribution for me has been his constant focus on how U.S. leaders treat so many of the world’s population as “unpeople,” either exploiting them economically or engaging in war-making, which has murdered, maimed or made homeless over 20 million people since the end of World War II (over 5 million in Iraq and 16 million in Indochina according to official U.S. government statistics).

I can read 10 different articles on the Vietnam era and they would all be different.  That's because each article has a different author and each person wants you to believe something else.

I've spent years studying this era of Lao history.  No need to read articles nit and picked by some snot nosed kid that cares more about a "party" than Laos itself.

But wait, why are you reading foreign written articles, when the Lao PDR history books say the Ho Chi Minh trail didn't exist. hahaha

You cannot find any articles on the relationship between the Lao refugees in Thailand and Pathet Lao in the  80's anywhere or any articles on who took Luang Prabang in 1975.  Let's just say they weren't Vietnamese and they weren't Lao.  All of these things are known by Lao only.

You can copy paste another 20 articles and it does not change one thing in Laos.

Does it stop all the changes in Laos now?  Hahaha

Anonymous wrote:

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I can read 10 different articles on the Vietnam era and they would all be different.  That's because each article has a different author and each person wants you to believe something else.

I've spent years studying this era of Lao history.  No need to read articles nit and picked by some snot nosed kid that cares more about a "party" than Laos itself.

But wait, why are you reading foreign written articles, when the Lao PDR history books say the Ho Chi Minh trail didn't exist. hahaha

You cannot find any articles on the relationship between the Lao refugees in Thailand and Pathet Lao in the  80's anywhere or any articles on who took Luang Prabang in 1975.  Let's just say they weren't Vietnamese and they weren't Lao.  All of these things are known by Lao only.

You can copy paste another 20 articles and it does not change one thing in Laos.

Does it stop all the changes in Laos now?  Hahaha

 

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 Yea I totally forgot how much money Noam Chomsky Arthur Mccoy and the small amount of others get paid by the Lao PDR. I wonder what kind of royalties they make. (sarcasm)

Lol what is nit picked? Noam Chomsky and his associates lived in Laos during this period. I can't pick articles written in Lao or made here or made by Vietnamese Chinese  because you would accuse me of being one sided. So I pick white people who have lived in Laos and written about their experience.  What is your problem? I would certainly trust an educated Noam Chomsky over your biased approach ( listening to your grandparents and sucking up to Uncle Sam)

Nope it doesn't change Laos now. But it certainly shows how stupid and moronic for Lao to hoist the French 3 elephant flag. That's like if Germans today  wanted to hoist up the Nazi flag and say well look Germany had a huge empire we were so good ! 

It doesn't matter if the RLG or Pathet Lao controlled Laos after 1975.  If the Vietnamese had left Laos to the Pathet Lao after 1975, the Pathet Lao would have found a middle path for Laos as would have the RLG if they were still in power.  That's why many of the top Pathet Lao leaders were killed by the Vietnamese throughout the late 70's-80's.  It was because they stood up to the Vietnamese.  Many do not know that there were many meetings between former RLG and Pathet Lao all through out the 80's.  Their mutual goal was to get Laos out of Vietnam's grip.

Anonymous wrote:

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It doesn't matter if the RLG or Pathet Lao controlled Laos after 1975.  If the Vietnamese had left Laos to the Pathet Lao after 1975, the Pathet Lao would have found a middle path for Laos as would have the RLG if they were still in power.  That's why many of the top Pathet Lao leaders were killed by the Vietnamese throughout the late 70's-80's.  It was because they stood up to the Vietnamese.  Many do not know that there were many meetings between former RLG and Pathet Lao all through out the 80's.  Their mutual goal was to get Laos out of Vietnam's grip.

 

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I don't think anyone is against that on this site. And nobody said Vietnam wasn't at fault. I have for years known Vietnam's goal of replacing France as the leader of Indochina. Say what you want about Saloth Sar, but he knew about Vietnam and what their ultimate goal was.  I do know it would have been hard to have that. Laos is small. If it wasn't Vietnam pulling strings, it would have been the CIA and Thailand. This is just reality of the situation. We shouldn't be blindfolded and act as if just communist nations control others, America and the west have been doing this for years.  

I do agree the Vietnamese should have left Laos for the Pathet Lao.

All of Laos' neighbors aren't that much bigger than Laos and yet they make decisions for the most part on what's best for their country.

Look at how the Thai scholars were debating for months on whether Thailand should have the new train from Laos or not.  They were weighing out the pros and cons.  That's what you do in life!

Laos has done what Vietnam has wanted it to do.  That's why you've seen Vietnam pick the most uneducated Lao men, many of whom can barely read and write Lao, to be PM etc.

Laos without Vietnam would be better off than most the Southeast Asians.  Laos had natural wealth and little people.  Plus Lao people of those days were not as lazy as they are today.

The notion that Laos can't stand on it's own is just something the Vietnamese came up with to justify the Viet Lao brotherhood agreement of 1977.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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It doesn't matter if the RLG or Pathet Lao controlled Laos after 1975.  If the Vietnamese had left Laos to the Pathet Lao after 1975, the Pathet Lao would have found a middle path for Laos as would have the RLG if they were still in power.  That's why many of the top Pathet Lao leaders were killed by the Vietnamese throughout the late 70's-80's.  It was because they stood up to the Vietnamese.  Many do not know that there were many meetings between former RLG and Pathet Lao all through out the 80's.  Their mutual goal was to get Laos out of Vietnam's grip.

 

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Cambodians are working everyday for the same thing.

Hun Sen now has to report to Hanoi more often than ever before because of this.

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Just the other day a Cambodian celebrity said "Cambodia will be a prosperous country in the future and Vietnam will have no friends".